Winterizing a Popup???

[daldricht]

For three winters, we have hauled our popup into a RV/Popup Dealers Service garage, and for $85 they "winterize" the thing. Can anyone tell me exactly what they do for it to withstand the VA cold - which is not extreme but it does cause certain connections to leek in the spring. Since we bought our 2002 Coleman Niagara used, we never got any kind of service manual with the popup.

Any help/information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[He Ruide]

Daldricht,  Hopefully this photogalley will help you.  Let me know if you have any questions.

Ruide

[daldricht]

Daldricht,  Hopefully this photogalley will help you.  Let me know if you have any questions.

Ruide

Ruide,
Thanks - hopefully this will help - have never done it myself - maybe I can find someone locally that has a popup and we can do together. If I screw up, it costs me a few bucks in repairing things - so just want to make sure it is done correctly?
Thanks again,
Dave

[daldricht]

Daldricht,  Hopefully this photogalley will help you.  Let me know if you have any questions.

Ruide

Ruide,
Just noticed you are in Cincinnati - how long have you lived there? I graduated from the Art Academy in Eden Park (has since moved into downtown Cincinnati) and also did graduate work at the University. I lived in a place called L.B. Harrison Club (at the time was an all white men's club 1964-1968).
The stadium was just being built when I moved back to New England (NH at the time) and they had just moved the fountain in front of some department store - do not remember the name of it?
Great city - was a great 5 years in OH - also did one year in Yellow Springs at Antioch - students were too radical so transferred to Cincinnati.

[PattieAM]

Basically the winterization process is draining the freshwater holding tank, water heater (and putting it in by-pass mode/removing-replacing anode rod), and pumping RV antifreeze through the plumbing system and drains (as well as toilet/shower).

While not really complicated, and I've done it, that $85 you are paying is well worth it in my opinion.  The RV antifreeze costs under $10 per gallon, and it takes several gallons (I am now re-using), but getting under the PUP to drain the freshwater holding tank, and drain the lines can be a pain.....

[He Ruide]

Dave,  You are welcome.  As Pattie said it is not really that complicated and there is not much you can do wrong... the worse would be filling up the hot water tank with antifreeze, which would be a waste and could destroy the anode.  On that note, be careful when taking out and putting back the anode as it is easy to get crossthreaded.

I've been in Cincinnati since 1993... times fly when you are having fun and yes they have redone Fountain Square since you were there.  The real issue is revitalizing down town.  Covington has done a much better job without all the fan fare.  Yet Cincinnati is still a nice city and the surrounding areas keep growing to the point where some day Dayton and Cincinnati may merge.

Take care.

Ruide

[Shepherd]

Sorry in advance for the long post.  I have a question on advice from the dealer.  I was going to use the method from He Ruide's photo gallery, but had to replace the fresh water tank drain plug on our unit.  We've never used the fresh water tank, just always hooked up to supplied water at the sites.  So when I got under the pup and saw the fresh water tank was missing the drain plug I went to the dealer who had several info sheets printed up and lying around dealing with winterizing.  Long story short is he said to not fill the water tank with antifreeze, just attach a syphon hose to the water pump and place it in the antifreeze jug after making sure all my lines were blown out of existing water.  He said I'd use way less antifreeze and I could always put a little in the fresh water tank if it would make me feel comfortable about the fresh water tank making it through the winter.

Here was my process (2005 Fleetwood Niagara):
drain water heater by removing 1 1/16 anode
close water heater valve inside of pup
draining water from all lines (sink, shower, outside shower, etc)
winterize toilet as shown by He Ruide
hook up syphon from antifreeze jug to water pump
turn on pump and have antifreeze flow through unit until it comes out of sink faucet, shower faucet, outside shower faucet. I opened both hot and cold for each faucet.

I checked the lines under the pup and it seems that they all have the pink antifreeze in them.  I then added a little antifreeze to the bottom of the fresh water tank and had the pump pull antifreeze from the water tank into the one line I disconnected to syphon from the antifreeze jug.  I only used one 1 gallon jug of antifreeze.  My question is was this enough antifreeze?  I'm a total newbie and TOTALLY inept at repairing stuff so don't want to have to pay huge cash next spring to have the dealer repair everything.  

Thanks again for your opinions on the process.

[He Ruide]

Here was my process (2005 Fleetwood Niagara):
drain water heater by removing 1 1/16 anode
close water heater valve inside of pup
draining water from all lines (sink, shower, outside shower, etc)
winterize toilet as shown by He Ruide
hook up syphon from antifreeze jug to water pump
turn on pump and have antifreeze flow through unit until it comes out of sink faucet, shower faucet, outside shower faucet. I opened both hot and cold for each faucet.

I checked the lines under the pup and it seems that they all have the pink antifreeze in them.  I then added a little antifreeze to the bottom of the fresh water tank and had the pump pull antifreeze from the water tank into the one line I disconnected to syphon from the antifreeze jug.  I only used one 1 gallon jug of antifreeze.  My question is was this enough antifreeze?  I'm a total newbie and TOTALLY inept at repairing stuff so don't want to have to pay huge cash next spring to have the dealer repair everything.  

Thanks again for your opinions on the process.

Shepherd,

Your process seems OK but I do have a couple comments and questions.

1. I'm assuming that when you said you "close water heater valve inside of pup" that you meant that you have a bypass kit and you turned the valve so that antifreeze flowed from the cold water up to the hot water line.

2. You have not said anything about ensuring that there is antifreeze in your drain lines.  You might have a "P" trap under the sink and you need to ensure that any water that was in the trap was replaced by antifreeze.

3. You really did not need to pour any antifreeze into the fresh water tank. Given that the tank was empty there was no need to add antifreeze and even if the line that you disconnected had drained out some antifreeze that would not be a problem since there would be no water in that line.

4. One line that might still have water is the city water inlet.  It has a one way valve that could have water behind it.  You need to depress the valve stem and make sure antifreeze comes out. Be Careful when you depress the stem because the water or antifreeze may be under pressure.

Hope this helps.

Ruide

[tlhdoc]

Here is how I winterize my PU.  Open the water heater drain valves under the camper.  Remove and check the anode rod after the tank is drained (keep you from getting a shower).  Bypass the water heater.  Connect an antifreeze hand pump to the outside city water connection.  The pump cost me about $20.  Set a jug of RV antifreeze on something to bring it up closer to the height of the city water connection (this just makes it easier to pump).  Open one hot or cold water valve and pump antifreeze until it comes out of the spout.  Close the first valve and open another.  Keep repeating the process until all of the water lines are full of antifreeze.  Pour antifreeze down all drains, about a cup will work.  You can also blow the water out of the water lines, but I feel safer using antifreeze.  My cassette toilet is winterized by draining all of the water out of the toilets fresh water holding tank.  Pump/flush until no more water comes out.  Pour enough antifreeze into the freshwater holding tank to allow you to flush the toilet.  Keep flushing until antifreeze comes out.  I use about one gallon of antifreeze to winterize my camper.  I also remove any liquids, scented items, food, etc. from the camper for the winter.  I put everything into a tote, so when I restock the trailer in the spring I don't forget anything.

[Shepherd]

Thanks for the answers folks, I appreciate the help.  

Ruide, I have the "standard Fleetwood" water heater.  I believe it has a bypass because you can leave the valve closed if you aren't using the water heater and it supposedly doesn't fill up.  If you open the valve, then your water heater fills and it is safe to light it.  I know that explanation sounds like I'm an idiot (I am really), but that is how the original owner explained the water heater to me.  My wife and I've both poured over the manual for the water heater and both come to that conclusion.  For the winterization process I closed that valve on the water heater.  I do have the antifreeze showing in the lines on both sides of the water heater so I figure I'm set, right?

Also, thanks for the reminder on the drains.  I hooked up five gallon buckets to both the sink and shower drain while I ran the antifreeze through the lines.  Both collected antifreeze as it went down the drains.  After I closed them, I didn't add more.  Do you think the process of the antifreeze draining into the five gallon buckets was enough to protect the drains or should I fill them both with a cup of antifreeze now that they are capped closed?

Thanks again for your advice.

[He Ruide]

Shepherd,  You are welcome.  Since you got antifreeze out of the hot water faucets I am going to assume you have a by pass and not just a valve at the cold water inlet.  It is very simple to check on the by pass.  You should have a hose that goes between the cold water inlet to the hot water outlet of the water heater.  Mine is the white hose in this picture.

Also, since you had antifreeze flowing out of the drains there is no need to add more antifreeze.

I recognize that you have asked about ensuring that antifreeze is in the hoses.  There is one thing I  should explain about winterizing.  The goal is to replace any water in the system with either pure antifreeze or air.  Some folks just blow out the lines but I've always worried that there may be residual water in the faucets or low points.  If you were to replace all the water with antifreeze and then drained out the antifreeze, you are still protected because you will either have antifreeze or air in the lines.

Hope this helps.

Ruide

[coach]

Air has much higher bust rating than antifreeze!

[Shepherd]

Thanks again for the help.  I believe I'm set.  If not, you'll hear a loud wail of anger/frustration in the spring!

[daldricht]

Thanks again for the help.  I believe I'm set.  If not, you'll hear a loud wail of anger/frustration in the spring!

We have discovered, even if all of the popup is not winterized, then what does not work or leaks in the spring must have been close to needing to being replaced anyway. We never received a manual with our popup because it was 2nd hand - so neither of us have a clue as to what you have to do. We have to donate the popup to the service department of a popup sales/service business - who have been great for the 4 years we have owned our popup.
We have heard from some of the other campers we meet each month, that some of them use a cheap vodka - tastes better than antifreeze when they are cleaning out the lines in the spring.
Living in VA - where we are literally protected by the piedmont of the Shenandoah, we get to use the popup during Nov and sometimes December - but you take a chance of getting hit a couple nights during the month of December with frost threats and that is where we have lost some hoses and or valves.
The place we are building in PA will include a garage unit large enough to house our popup - and since the floors are going to be heated with water flowing through heated coils, we may not have to winterize?