What's with some employers?

[MommaMia]

Some people on this thread seem to think that employers have some sort of perverse happiness out of making people's lives miserable.  

I saw it expressed not as the employers got a perverse happiness out of it but more that there was a cold, calousness about it.  "Whack... You're out, There's the door...See ya."  But in the defense of the employers doing the firing, or more specifically, the actual person made to deliver the bad news, I can understand why they may be cold and formal about it.  It's a tough thing to do to  tell somebody "Your plans are screwed... you thought things were tight before, well get ready for really tough times".  So I imagine the firing person would have to try to keep him/herself somewhat removed from the whole situation, especially if they are firing a large number of employees.  How hard it must be to have to go home at the end of the day, knowing how many people you made really bummed out that day.

[MommaMia]

An attitude shift needs to occur here and it starts with work ethic.  We used to really have that but it's gone when people figure they are "owed" something by their employer.   Think about that when your kid is playing video games 1/2 the day and on the other side of the world there is a kid killing himself to learn how to run a business.  Who do you think will be leading the economy 10 years from now.

I do agree with this.  No matter what job I have ever taken on, I have always given 110% Not so much to please my employer, that's a given.  More, it's to please myself.  The immense feeling of satisfaction of busting my butt and having it really pay off, for me or for the employer or friend or whomever, is something that really motivates me.  And the older I get, the more I look and see how few people take pride in their work.  

And you want to talk about kids?  "Kids these days..."  Yeah, they can really flip me out.  How many teenagers did I know when I was young that had their own cars?  Not many.  But usually those who did had to work hard to earn the money to pay for that car and it's upkeep.  I shocks me how teens nowadays expect so many material things to be given to them by their parents.  I can't afford to dress the way most of these kids I see.  The manicures, the $150 sneakers, the $100 jeans, the jewelry, with all their electronic equiptment they have.  Most now have their own entertainment systems in their room and their own private computers that cost more than a pretty penny.  And what do most of them do to get that stuff?  Work for it?  Not usually!  When is the last time I went into a fast food joint and saw a teen working behind the counter?  Hardly ever.  The people flipping burgers are usually adults working a second job just to make ends meet... just so their kid at home can have everything and anything they want.  

So this is where you can find the people who take pride in their work.  It's usually the "little guy",  often the blue collar worker that has 2 jobs to make ends meet so the family can live and enjoy a few perks here and there.

[Steve-o-bud]

Soabox Mode ON

I hope you aren't implying that Camperoo's Dh is doing any of this, because I am confident this surley isn't the case.  Well, maybe he isn't giving his BEST effort, but certainly it's what is asked of him that he puts forth.  He's not running the system down, taking advantage.  Equal compensation for equal work.  That's the impression I get.

No implication or offense is intended. I have no idea what Camperoo's DH's work ethic is. I'm simply offering an opion on a topic that I have strong feelings about.

I do agree with this. No matter what job I have ever taken on, I have always given 110% Not so much to please my employer, that's a given. More, it's to please myself. The immense feeling of satisfaction of busting my butt and having it really pay off, for me or for the employer or friend or whomever, is something that really motivates me. And the older I get, the more I look and see how few people take pride in their work.

This is really the point that I'm trying to make. I think that those who have this approach, will usually, and hopefully, make out a whole lot better than those who do not. My wife used to work for a small business. The guy who owned it wrote the paychecks, and the money he paid her came straight out of his pocket. Hopefully her services provided value to his company, so it was a good deal for everyone. I think about that, if I similarly owned a company, could I afford this employee? Would I want to keep him/her.

As a supervisor, my experience is that people come to a job with or without that work ethic. It is almost impossible to instill if it's not already there. Unfortunately, it is very easy to dismotivate employees through bad management, and once you loose their motivation, it is almost impossible to get it back.

As for "kids these days", I'm not so sure...I've hired young adults who have a great work ethic. In my situation, the thing that sets the great ones apart is their desire to learn, and their ability to self teach. I've had some real loosers who talked a good game, but, I sure wouldn't hire them again, given a choice.

Some people on this thread seem to think that employers have some sort of perverse happiness out of making people's lives miserable.

All of this is part of a changing world economy. American manufacturing is just going away. Think about that the next time you want to buy an American made TV, stereo or most computers. Think about where those sneakers for you kid are made or the clothes you are wearing.

I think that some companies are heartless. That at some companies, maximizing corporate profits is the only value that is adhered to. I think that there are bad bosses who do take perverse pleaseure in messing with people's lives. A superintendent of mine once said, "If you enjoy firing someone, you are in the wrong job. It should be as bad or worse for you, as it is for them."

Good companies have values which balance the needs of the owner/shareholders, the people they serve, and the employees. Short sighted companies don't strike a balance.

Good employees balance their personal needs, their familes' needs, and the needs of their companies.

Soapbox Mode OFF.

[Camperroo]

Just to clarify all this...my husband has only the best of work ethics.  He never calls in sick, never goes in late and never leaves early.  He works extremely hard, is very conscientious about what he's doing and expects high quality work from his crew and makes sure work is done right and the budget is met on projects.  However, his enthusiasm for doing such things has been greatly damaged from watching one employee after another getting the heave ho.   This is not a little company...it's big.  We have planned a move to Florida for quite awhile due to our constant financial struggle to live in expensive MA, but due to circumstances knew it couldn't happen until at least September.  Until we get there, the man has to work somewhere and earn a good living.  Life changes, who knows if this company really came through with what they said, we may have been able to stay here.   When he was hired, he had the choice of two companies at the time, this company he choose told him they were growing at a rapid pace and that promotions would come quickly.  Instead he has since found out they bit off more than they could chew by trying to switch from commercial construction to residential construction.  Two different animals and they went into, though being a very large company, very poorly prepared.   He'd have been better off going with the smaller local company.  But because this was a corporately run company he saw a chance for advancement and the benefits were terrific.  The other company would have left us with no health insurance for two months.  That risk could have financially destroyed us if heaven forbid someone became sick or injured.   Given we were in that awful car accident last summer, I would never want to be without health insurance.

It was a hope that with this company we could possibly stay in the area and put off our move.  But once the layoffs started hitting this company we quickly realized, promises made are not promises kept.  People aren't even being given two weeks notice they are just getting "goodbye".   It's hard to work under those conditions when you thought going in, it was going to be something of promise and then each week you watch another despondent, shocked person leave the building to go home to their family and tell them they are out of work.  He feels lied to and mislead by management.

Gone are the days of working for the company knowing the company would be loyal to those loyal to them.   People who put in a life's work are losing the health benefits they were suppose to be able to keep in retirement, or they are being let go before they hit the company milestone of so many years put in = retirement benefits.  It's like trying to go up an escalator that is going down.  You keep working hard to climb up but instead just keep getting sent down.

Until we can be ready for our move, he's got to have a job and we have to have health insurance, etc., we have a family to protect, but his company doesn't care about that, they'd let him go in a heartbeat if it meant saving some money for them, so we have to watch out for ourselves.   However, he's useful to them because he does do a good job, so he'll do his job as they hired him for and in return they'll give him the benefits and salary they offered.  It's not easy to put in a hard week's work when you know on Friday they seem to spin the wheel of who's next out the door.  This is no little company, so the way they are doing things is really cruel emotionally to their employees.  But these people, including my DH, have to work and earn the money and put up with the company's indifference towards their employees until they can find a better opportunity.

Ours will be selling our home and moving South to FL where we can start fresh and buy a home that won't leave us house poor with cash flow and actually have some money in the bank.  We'll also once again start our own business after researching the area and knowing it's a feasible thing to do.   DH won't work for anyone else ever again after seeing what's happening out there.  Until we're ready to go, DH will do his job, but he could be the next spin of that wheel...if it happens it will be a blessing in disguise at this point, because it will finally prompt us to just move things along a little quicker.  This job was a hope for us to think we could stay in the area, instead it was another lesson or "sign" that it's time to just move on.  

I feel badly for the other employees that don't have the option for moving on as we do and have to stay here for one reason or another.  Alot of the guys are living on Tums right now, wondering if they are next to get the boot and how they will in turn support their families.  It's no way to have to go work every day.

Oh and by the way DH did have a chance to speak with the Vice President of the company to express his displeasure at the way things have been handled.  He reassured my DH that his job was safe but they were trimming away the "excess"and trying to streamline their company.  Nice way to describe hard working people as "excess".  DH told him he wasn't so much as concerned about his job as he was concerned about how what they were doing was affecting the morale of other employees.  VP said he would hold a meeting to try and ease employees concerns.  DH doubts that meeting will happen, he thinks VP was just trying to placate DH so that he doesn't leave them before they're ready to let him go!!   Great work environment!!

We're lucky enough to have the option of getting out...it isn't as easy for others and I feel badly for the pressure put on them day after day.

[kathybrj]

The Northeast has never fully come out of the recession that hit the country for years. Good paying jobs are few and far between here and, even if you are lucky enough to get a good paying job, you will see your fringe benefits decline steadily, if you have any at all.

This is just fact. Companies here are often offered tax breaks for staying here, but those certainly aren't enough to offset the ever increasing cost of offering low cost or partial cost health insurance and other benefits to employees. Often, the question faced by companies is whether to keep employees and cut off benefits or to drop employees and keep benefits for those they can afford to keep and are willing to take on more work. Catch-22.

Doing business in the Northeast can be more costly then doing business in other parts of the country. Insurance costs (post 9/11- do you know what NYer's and NY businesses pay???), weather (increased fuel use and cost), bad politics, taxes, environmental restrictions for our already polluted waterways, etc., add to the cost of being in business here. For those reasons and others, this market has been in decline for years and will probably stay that way.

If companies were as compassionate as folks would like them to be, they would close their doors in no time. Sometimes, it looks as though a business to be able to be a success and people are told they will advance. Nothing in life is guaranteed, however, and that's just the fact. There is always the need to be prepared for anything to happen. Businesses are businesses, not friends. If they can't make capital, they go under and so does anyone working for them. Competition is fierce. Leaner companies survive.

The Northeast is still struggling and probably will be for a long time. Anyone that's lived here should be aware of it and not be surprised at what's going on. It's just life in the Northeast. For lots of us, just having a job- any job- has to do. All you can do is go to work, put a little away and hopefully get enough to invest well someday and be prepared for the day the company says they can't keep you. Promises are just that- they are nothing until they come through and there are no guarantees in life- ever.

My husband's company has been up for sale for about a year now. He's been there for 11 years. Since we were told they were up for sale, we've decreased our extra spending and, for us, that isn't much. But I've cut corners and I'm putting away a little and I mean a little- about $10-$25 a week when I can, to pay for doctor's visits, etc. if we lose health coverage. We've already had benefits decreased each year for about 4 years now. The alternative choice for his work is another company that's layed off about 900 workers in a year. So it's not really an alternative at all.

We do without and so do the kids. It's home and a campfire in the yard with friends and a homemade pizza instead of movies out or even rentals. It's camping at the state park 20 minutes away at $16 a night rather than driving 4 hours and spending the $$ on gas. But this is how we've done it in the past and it's happened to us at least 4 times. We celebrate the good times and prepare for the lean ones.

We're natives of the Northeast and our aging and ill families are here, so we'll stay. That's our choice and the sacrifices we're making are our choice so we can't complain.

The American business sector is not what it used to be. And that's just the way it is. Sad but true.

[campingboaters]

Just wanted to add my two cents (my current life situation)...

   A month ago, the President of our very small company (50 people) held a company meeting to try to calm everyone