"Goodbye, Farewell, It's Time For Me To Go-oh"

[NightOwl]

(with apologies to the Von Trapp Family for the above quote.)  (Try to imagine me with blonde  pigtails,  white knee sox, and a red drindle skirt dancing my way  merrily off stage.)


It has been a rough 2 weeks  and  the dust has settled  again, giving me a chance to see clearly once more .  .. And   now it's  time  for me to leave.  

Before I go, I'd like to share a  few   observations about being a good member here:  Seems to me it   RIGHTFULLY  requires: 1. unquestioning loyalty  to Dave; 2.   comfort with all  his decisions; and 3. support for whatever  actions the moderators  deem necessary..

 Unfortunately, much as I wish I could,  I cannot quite live up to those three basic requirements   with my whole heart anymore  like I once did, and therefore   have concluded that remaining   would not be ethical ..  (Actually,  for anyone to  remain here and NOT be totally loyal would be hypocritical.)  

This place really only exists in our hearts and our heads, so  I have lingered   longer than   I probably should have,  not wanting to reach  a  hasty conclusion  based on  disappointment with recent decisions.   After thinking it over  objectively,  I'm relieved to discover I dont harbor anger or resentment   toward anyone.   Nonetheless,  my heart and my head agree that I should move on.  .(Not  anyone else's fault, but just one of those things.)

Almost  five years ago while in an earlier stage, this board became my first "home" on the internet and I owe it much gratitude  So I take away a treasure chest of happy memories of everyone who ever sat beside the PUT  campfire with me--yes, even those who disagreed with me strongly. (And I am glad to see  them  all  returning and already  helping build a better board)

 I still laugh when I think of Jeffrey and I  (with genef trying to keep  the peace)  having heated discussions about name tag wearing at the first Eastern Rally.  I think Jeff finally agreed he might wear one sometimes, but never with his jammies:J  (And it was going to be HIS OWN special version of a PUT Rally nametag. )


So please  keep in mind, if any of our paths cross again  no matter where it  might happen, whether at other internet sites  or on terra firma,  ALL of  you can count on finding  find a warm welcome  beside my  campfire.  And I do mean ALL.    Life is too short for me  to bear grudges (or grudge bears ) so I leave while I still  feel  fondness for  every PUT member past and present and for the board itself.  And now, Dave it is time to close the door and change the lock.  .  Elisa

[campingboaters]

I, for one, will miss you dearly here, but I understand your feelings as of late and understand your reasons for leaving.  
 
You've been such a good friend to SO many people on this board as well as making me laugh WAY too often.  I'm sure you will continue that tradition elsewhere.  I'll "see" you around one of the campfires you'll have burning!  

:W   :!

[wiininkwe]

I posted this a few days ago in another thread, and it was deleted.  I have edited it a little and decided that it is still appropriate here. I hope that you all realise how hard this is for several of us.

T
 
NightOwl is being very modest. I don't know if anyone else in the membership expended the energy, and finances and moral support to help keep PUT afloat during those times as Elisa did. She was tireless in her support, and was constant in her awareness of those who claimed not to have the money to pay for a membership. She burned up the phone lines with Dave to 'sponsor' those that she felt would like to stay here, and didn't crow about who or exactly how many she quietly paid for. She, and a few others also were loyal behind the scenes, choosing not to patronize those message boards that were formed by disgruntled former PUT members, who went there to complain about Dave's business practices. She never missed a chance to praise the many features of this "family". There were others who couldn't wait to grumble about how Dave's idea would fail, and that this wasn't fair, and they were going to go somewhere else. Many of those are suddenly making a triumphant comeback to this board now, and Dave has decided that they are desirable members here. She hasn't mentioned to you how she left this board for months last year. Angelsmom hasn't come forward to tell you how long it took several of us to talk her into coming back after she was driven away by sarcasm towards her. I left, for weeks, and then decided not to let someone who has a grudge against people ruin something that I had come to think of as very important to me. Al, Topcat, wouldn't allow any of to say a bad word about Dave or PUT in his presence, you should ask him what he thinks now. This isn't about Birol, or about Cindy, and whoever said that we must all take responsibility for our own actions was right. As I said before, I was one of PUT's top cheerleaders, always having lots of good things to say about the magazine and message board. I am now taking the responsibility to hang up my pom poms.

[Miss-Teri]

I've also been driven away from the boards.  I once posted something OT in an attempt to help and the scathing replies surprised me so much I was actually in tears.  My DH who was sitting beside me posted about how I probably wouldn't return.  After a couple of months hiatus, I did end up back as I enjoy the information and I missed some of the people.

I don't understand the unkind mentality of this board.  And I don't understand how this board where we seem to almost all be Christians, is so much more hateful than another board I am on which is filled with mostly Wiccans and Atheists.  Do we end up with a "holier than thou" mentality as Christians sometimes and decide we can say whatever we want whenever we want?  The other board I'm speaking of has no problem whatsoever with off topics, and will be unbelievably encouraging any time someone has a sick grandma, has lost a pet, needs another job, is going through a divorce, etc.  This board CAN be like that - I've seen it.  And there are a lot of good people here.  But there are a lot of people who really should take a good look in the mirror before berating others (as we all should), especially about such silly things like being annoyed because you don't like what someone is talking about.  

I have something to apologize about here.  I had a LOT to do with this entire thing.  Because I told Birol to please keep us updated as I check in a lot to see how he's doing.  I encouraged him as I cared.  And this is what happened because of it.

I'll miss you, Elisa and Toni, so much.  This board will never be the same.  I am truly very sorry for my part in this.

[dee106]

i don't agree with a lot of stuff that has gone on, but leaving isn't going to solve things, nor fighting.

why can't we all sit back and enjoy the boards, and only post things to do with our campers and camping, and no more he said she said stuff, I come here to relax and talk to people about our campers, camping and places to go and to see. if we stick to that, and leave our personal baggage for a different forum, we could have fun once again.
let the past be the past. let it go,,, stop bringing it back up , lets move on.

[Miss-Teri]

and leave our personal baggage for a different forum, we could have fun once again.

What forum?  See, that's what I'm not understanding at all.  There is a different forum for "personal stuff" and OT?  I thought that is what the campfire forum was for?  I've thought that since the new board came about.  That's where I'm confused and it's why I mistakenly told him to keep on giving us updates.  I don't understand what we're supposed to talk about on the campfire forum.

Edit:  Just reread that and wanted to say there was no sarcasm meant.  I really don't understand and if someone will explain it I'll understand the boundaries for my own posts so I can try not to upset anyone.

[Acts 2:38 girl]

Off Topic posts are welcomed here. Please remeber, these posts are still moderated.

This is copied off the description of the Campfire board.  So Terri, I think your right.  This is called the "Campfire", I thought, because it contains stuff that you would actually discuss around a campfire!!!!  Oh well...
 
I am so sorry to see Elisa and Toni go.  I don't see them at Rally's, so this is the only place I can "see" them!  I'm sorry GeneF went too, however I think that if he left the entire board just because Birol - he must have been looking for a reason to leave!  Maybe I misunderstood why he actually left.  Either way, this stinks :mad: !!!   I wish you would both change your mind.  You both contribute to making this place a fun place to come.  Let me know what other places you frequent!  Maybe I'll stop in and say HI!:)
 
Terri - don't let others opinions in threads discourage you.  The only thing I take seriously here is prayer requests.  You must take life troubles of others, funny things, or insults, digs, etc, with a grain of salt.  We are all reading things here, we can't see peoples face, expressions, sly looks, or get that feeling you get when actually with another person.  I call my sister goofy names all the time, but if I wrote it down and gave it to her, she would definately not know I'm joking unless I put a smiley face or something.  (This is why I love smileys!!)     Sometimes I read something and I'm not sure how to take it.  I think this was especially true of Birol - who's english was so-so.  I can remember many times where he needed an expression explained in greater detail.  
 
This doesn't mean I don't believe the things people write, but I do use caution.  Jeez, I'm niave enough as it is!!!

[angelsmom10]

I've also been driven away from the boards. I once posted something OT in an attempt to help and the scathing replies surprised me so much I was actually in tears. My DH who was sitting beside me posted about how I probably wouldn't return. After a couple of months hiatus, I did end up back as I enjoy the information and I missed some of the people.
 
I don't understand the unkind mentality of this board. And I don't understand how this board where we seem to almost all be Christians, is so much more hateful than another board I am on which is filled with mostly Wiccans and Atheists. Do we end up with a "holier than thou" mentality as Christians sometimes and decide we can say whatever we want whenever we want? The other board I'm speaking of has no problem whatsoever with off topics, and will be unbelievably encouraging any time someone has a sick grandma, has lost a pet, needs another job, is going through a divorce, etc. This board CAN be like that - I've seen it. And there are a lot of good people here. But there are a lot of people who really should take a good look in the mirror before berating others (as we all should), especially about such silly things like being annoyed because you don't like what someone is talking about.
 
I have something to apologize about here. I had a LOT to do with this entire thing. Because I told Birol to please keep us updated as I check in a lot to see how he's doing. I encouraged him as I cared. And this is what happened because of it.
 
I'll miss you, Elisa and Toni, so much. This board will never be the same. I am truly very sorry for my part in this.

I too have been put to tears because of members of this board that are still here.
 
There have been a lot of changes to this board...  (I hope not to be banned for this comment)... at one point it seemed to be going in the right direction, however with all those that are leaving... I think it will go in the wrong direction.. many who have posted that they are leaving have been long time contributors.  I can't name any names (because I don't know who they are), but I heard that others have also left without evening saying good-bye.. (so I don't know if it's true or not.. guess we'll have to see who doesn't post anymore)
 
ADMIN... (again please don't ban me)... please take notice to everyone who is leaving... they will be missed for all their contributions and I wish them well.

[garym053]

Will the last person on the PUT board please turn off the computer?

Nightowl, I'm sorry to see you go. I was sorry to see Genef go and the others. Genef is the only PUTer, or exPuter that I've actually met. He seems very nice as I'm sure the rest of us (except me, I'm a crab, ask my DW!) are nice too, in person.

Sometimes the problem with emails, chatrooms, boards, etc is that people take the message the wrong way. You can't read much humor into a message when you don't see the face of the person speaking, (typing) it.

Here are some of my suggestions:
1. let the Campfire section be "lightly" moderated. If someone takes offense to a thread- so what, no one is forcing them to read it! Moderate it to screen profanity, outright slandering, etc, but other than that, let it go its course.

2. If someone wants to post everytime they sneeze or buy socks or whatever- so what? They are not forcing you to read the posts! They may be lonely and this is as good a substitute friend as they have right now.

3. I USED to participate in some relatively unmoderated boards- they are not that enjoyable! I would leave the level of Moderating alone on all the other PUT subjects- just lighten the touch a little on the Campfire thread.

4. We're here to help one another, not abuse them! That goes from Dave and the moderator's right on through the membership to the newest newbie on the board! There isn't anyone here that I wouldn't offer help or at least my opinion of help to, if they asked for advice. I think everyone here is that way as well, so let's get back to that!

5. I don't think banning for life is a good thing. Here again, Dave and the moderator's have far more experience than me, but it's my opinion that a time out, a few private messages discussing the problems, etc would work far better and not cause our board to dwindle down!

I'm sure Dave and the moderators recall when I got myself in trouble with the board. I believe at that time I was defending Birol against some criticism that was causing him to think about leaving. I went too far in MY criticism and was told that. My first reaction was to be mad, but then I saw the other side of it and have been pretty loyal and hopefully use more constructive criticism rather than destructive criticisms!

Anyway, I value Dave and the moderators for all their work, and I value each and every one of you for what you can share about camping, campers and just plain fun in general!

[homecrew]

Good post, Gary

[Starryart]

Well I am going to stay.
I agree with Gary and Acts Girl in that I come for shared interests. If a topic doesn't appeal to me then I click back and find something else.
I teach junior high and see kids all day long fussing with each other over pointless things that tomorrow won't matter to anyone, so I ignore that kind of pettiness. It does no good to argue. Who is going to change whose mind? You can't take everthing so personal. You know what you believe in and you don't need to prove it to anyone.
I come for peace and interesting small talk about my love of camping. That is what I think I will still find here at PUT.
 

[tlhdoc]

Well I am going to stay.
I agree with Gary and Acts Girl in that I come for shared interests. If a topic doesn't appeal to me then I click back and find something else.
I teach junior high and see kids all day long fussing with each other over pointless things that tomorrow won't matter to anyone, so I ignore that kind of pettiness. It does no good to argue. Who is going to change whose mind? You can't take everthing so personal. You know what you believe in and you don't need to prove it to anyone.
I come for peace and interesting small talk about my love of camping. That is what I think I will still find here at PUT.
 

I agree 100%.

[Acts 2:38 girl]

Maybe we should have a "Farewell Party"  

 
I make some pretty good Pizza Dip, and I'll make sure to bring the tortilla chips to go with it!
 

[CJnRae]

Elisa,

I'm so sorry to see you go - just as I'm coming back.  You were always so encouraging to me via the board and emails and I thank you.
 
Know that there will always be a spot for your chair by our fireside.
 
Rae