generators

[wkndarcher]

Hope everyone has had a good winter  OK I am thinking of getting a small ( 650 to 1000 kw ) generator to use to recharge the battery that i put on the popup for the 12 volt system . Another reason is that its small enough to put in my tool box in case someone needs jumping off , with all the electronics on cars these days i realy hate to jump someone off but hate to say no as well. Does any one have one of these and if so how do they preform . This is not a have to have item because the only place we have been that doesnt have power is the race tracks . And how long will a battery keep running the interrior lights of my popup until it need recharging . i havent been since i added the battery

All comments are welcome ,,, thanks

[mike4947]

The genset will work better with a seperate battery charger. The onboard 12 volt taps are limited to either 4 or 6 amps on these small gensets. But they will power a much larger battery charger. 650 watts will take 600/12 or apx a 40 amp charger. Also chect the continuous rating for the genset. 650 watt units are usually 600 watts continuous and 1000 watt units are normall 800/850 continuous.

As for lights they can be the largest draw in a PU. Each bulb will draw between 1.4 and 1.8 amps depending on the bulb and that means two ceiling fixtures with dual bulbs will draw as much as 7+ amps per hour from the battery. As to what the battery holds that you can use. Check it's capacity/reserve capacity. Take that number and divide by 2.4 to get an accurate amount of amps you can use till the battery si 50% discharged.
EX: 75 amp group 24....75/2.4 = 31.25 if your lights draw say 6 amps that olny 5 hours of lights till the battery is 50% discharged. Which is the lowest level recommended by battery manufacturers to keep up the life of the battery.

[wavery]

A couple of things to consider when purchasing a gen-set.

Most people want a quiet gen-set and quiet costs $. Also consider the fact that as you camp more and more, you may well accumulate more and more 110v stuff to run off of the gen-set. A 1000w gen-set won't run much.

A generator is typically capable of running 75% of it's rated capacity on a continuous basis. Try not to make the same mistake that most people make. Most people buy a gen-set that will meet their minimal requirements, then within a year have to upgrade to a larger unit and sell the smaller one. You can usually find good used smaller gen-sets quite cheaply. They don't hold their resale value very well.

I know that you said that you want it for battery charging but I can almost guarantee you that you will start plugging 110v appliances into it soon after purchase. A 600w gen-set will run some small power tools and a few 100w light bulbs. It will run 450w on a continual basis. It may run 500-550w without stalling but it will soon overheat and drastically shorten the life of the generator.

I have a Honda EU2000I gen-set and it is great. It runs everything that I want to run (incuding the A/C), it's economical and very quiet. If I ever decide that I need more power (which I can't imagine), I can add and additional EU2000I and have 4000w of power and not have to lug around a 150 lb gen-set (EU2000I = 46#).

Hondas and Yamahas are about the quietest gensets available.
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/gensup.asp
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor/products/modelhome/475/0/home.aspx

[wkndarcher]

well the only thing i have now that i didnt have in a tent is the air on top and i dont know how big it is or what it would take to start it and run it . someone told me it would take a 3000 kw gen and they are just to hi for my budget right now ,, realy all i want is something to recharge the battery with and they are like 150.00 shipped to ya on e bay ,, i am not planning on telling the wife i can plug things into it ,lol , .  i just saw the 12v plugs on some of them and wondered if they would keep a battery charged by running an hour or 2 in the daytime and if that much charge would last long enough at night to have light till bedtime

[SpeakEasy]

wkendarcher,

In my experience, running the lights in a popup off the 12v battery is no problem at all. While mike4947's numbers seem to make sense, they don't jive with my experience. I've been out in the wilderness for two or three days with no problem having all the light I need from my battery. My battery is nothing special, just a deep-cycle that I picked up at Wal-mart. I use other electric things too, like the pump for my water system.

I would recommend that you think about getting a solar charger rather than the generator you're thinking about. I have a small (15w) solar panel that I use to keep a gentle recharge going while I'm out. I've been able to go for 7 or 8 days that way without a problem.

Just so you know, my opinion is deeply affected by my love of a quiet wilderness. I hate it when I go to a national park or forest and have to listen to the hum of a generator. This doesn't mean I'm feeding you a line of bull. I'm not. But I thought you should know "where I'm coming from."

If you do find yourself using up your battery too fast on lights alone there are a couple things you can do. As mike4947 noted, the light fixtures probably have two bulbs each. You could remove one bulb from each fixture, still have some light, and cut your consumption in half. Also, I've read about others who have replaced their bulbs with LED's which draw very little power. Someone here can probably provide you with a link to a store that sells the right LED's.

[wavery]

wkendarcher,

In my experience, running the lights in a popup off the 12v battery is no problem at all. While mike4947's numbers seem to make sense, they don't jive with my experience. I've been out in the wilderness for two or three days with no problem having all the light I need from my battery. My battery is nothing special, just a deep-cycle that I picked up at Wal-mart. I use other electric things too, like the pump for my water system.

I would recommend that you think about getting a solar charger rather than the generator you're thinking about. I have a small (15w) solar panel that I use to keep a gentle recharge going while I'm out. I've been able to go for 7 or 8 days that way without a problem.

Just so you know, my opinion is deeply affected by my love of a quiet wilderness. I hate it when I go to a national park or forest and have to listen to the hum of a generator. This doesn't mean I'm feeding you a line of bull. I'm not. But I thought you should know "where I'm coming from."

If you do find yourself using up your battery too fast on lights alone there are a couple things you can do. As mike4947 noted, the light fixtures probably have two bulbs each. You could remove one bulb from each fixture, still have some light, and cut your consumption in half. Also, I've read about others who have replaced their bulbs with LED's which draw very little power. Someone here can probably provide you with a link to a store that sells the right LED's.

AS mIKE4947 stated the small gen-sets put out 6-7 amps for battery charging. If you run your battery down using your lights etc, it would take 5 hours of running to replace 30 amps of power (theoretically). The usable amps would actually be somewhat less.

I think that you will find those gen-sets very noisy. If you are willing to put up with the noise, your neighbors may not be. There are ways to cut down on the noise, however. You can make a small, heavily insulted box to put the gen-set in. Put ventilation in the box for air flow. On cool days, they work just fine. On hot days, you may find your gen-set overheated.

The one nice thing about those gen-sets is that you can turn it on, leave the campsite for a hike and not have to worry about someone steeling it. This is a real problem with the more expensive units. I lock mine in the trunk of the car when not in use and I put a cable lock on it when it is in use.

You may be better off just taking along an additional battery. It's a lot cheaper, quieter and a lot less hassle. Your neighbors will smile a lot more too .

[SpeakEasy]

I thought mike was saying that you could only run your lights for five hours before your battery would be down to 50%.

[wkndarcher]

I know what you mean about the noise we had some idiots last year at talladega that never turned there generator off the whole week it ran day and night , need less to say we werent happy campers , when we asked him to turn it off at a reasonable hour ( quiet time suposed to start at 10 ) he stated he didnt have to .  :yikes:
 I as well as everyone else hate the noise of a generator late in the evening and was planning on using it only during the day time ( but any noise is still a noise ) i will check into the solar power that sounds nice and quiet   , after all with the kids playing ,and the fish jumping ,and the pots and pans clanging while we are relaxing around a fire  is what it is all about ,,lol who need noise right ,,lol

[mike4947]

I just gave an extreme example on battery versus lights, your mileage my vary. LOL
 
But back to the original question, a battery can get to much of a good thing ie. charging. Batteries have limits on the amount of amps they accept without damage/shortening their life. Most manufacturers recommend the C/10 rule. That means take the capacity of the battery and divide by 10.
As an example a 100 amps capacity battery likes at most 10/12 amps from the charger, a pair of 6 volt deep cycles rated at 225 amps like at most 20/25 amps.
Main reason I purchased a Shumacher 2/12/25 smart charger. The 12 amp setting is good for a single battery and the 25 amp setting is good for dual batteries. Not to mention it has setting for different battery types. ie. AMG/deep cycle/starting.
More amperage tends to shorten the battery's life.
 
Also chargers do not put in their rating all the time they are hooked up. As anyone who stared at their charger while waiting for the battery to charge you've seen the amperage amount drop as the battery reaches full charge. It can take longer to get from 80% to 100% than it does to go from 50% to 80%.

[wavery]

I know what you mean about the noise we had some idiots last year at talladega that never turned there generator off the whole week it ran day and night , need less to say we werent happy campers , when we asked him to turn it off at a reasonable hour ( quiet time suposed to start at 10 ) he stated he didnt have to .  :yikes:
 I as well as everyone else hate the noise of a generator late in the evening and was planning on using it only during the day time ( but any noise is still a noise ) i will check into the solar power that sounds nice and quiet   , after all with the kids playing ,and the fish jumping ,and the pots and pans clanging while we are relaxing around a fire  is what it is all about ,,lol who need noise right ,,lol

Solar panels are great. I had 2 (4amps each) of them on my yacht.

Two 48w (4amp) solar panels will cost you around $600. This is about the minimum that you would want for battery charging. 4 of them would be more practical on a camper.

There are a few things that you must realize about solar panels. They only put out their rated load in peak, direct sunlight. That means that a 48w panel will put out 48w from about an hour before the sun reaches it's highest limit until about an hour after (even that is calculated at the equator) while pointed directly at the sun. Any cloud cover or shade will greatly diminish the output. You must move the angle of the panels every hour or 2 for best results. You only get about 6-8 hours per day of charging above the 1/4 the rated capacity of the panel. If you live in the northern portion of the country don't waist your money on solar (IMHO) because you only have about 2 months out of the year that it will give you acceptable results.

The long & short of it is, a 48w (4amp) panel can only be expected to put out about 10 amps on a sunny day, with ample care (if you're lucky). Trust me on this one. I lived with solar panels on my yacht for 14 years 24/7. I tried several different systems and mounting techniques.

The other thing is, stay away from flexible panels. The wires inside the array are very fine and won't take a lot of abuse. The flexible panels tend to suffer from damage with a minimal amount of moving around.

Don't get me wrong. I think that they may be the ideal solution for you (if . Just don't think that you will get any kind of results for that $150 that you were talking about. It will probably cost you closer to $1,000 to achieve any kind of acceptable results. I plan to mount 4 of them on my PU, as soon as the right deal comes along.

[wkndarcher]

1000.00 is a little steep to charge a battery in just a few places a year

[wavery]

1000.00 is a little steep to charge a battery in just a few places a year

You're right about that :yikes:

We dry camp about twice a month. I spent that much on the Honda generator too. The solar panels will eventually be used on a house we will be building. They last, practically forever.

I suppose if this guy only wants to charge batteries and not use the 110v generator $1K might be better spent on solar panels then on a generator. Besides, you don't have to buy fuel for solar. The Sun is free. Just didn't want him to think that he had a snowballs chance of any useful power out of a $150 solar panel.

[6Quigs]

We found that our group 24 battery that came with our popup would last us for a 3 night weekend camping during the summer, powering the lights, and water pump. During the winter, when the daylight hours are less, and we need heat, we tend to camp with hookups, so we can use our ceramic heater.
For extended dry camping trips we spent $70 on a second battery, a cheap, easy and quiet way to double your battery capacity.

You mention that the only place you dry camp is at the race track, so go ahead and use the generator, as noise is not an issue there. Honda and Yamaha both make very quiet 1000 watt generators, that are light, and very quiet, perfect for charging the battery on a popup, and if you are at a race track I bet you will not be able to tell if it is running or not, because any noise it makes will be drowned out be the sound of a Coleman construction site type generator located 1/4 mile away!!

[wkndarcher]

i have noticed since we baught the popup that i am like steve martin in the jerk .. i walk in a store and see a sleeping bag and say i need this and thats all i need , and as i am going by the batteries ,o i need one of these and thats all i need , o and i need a generator to but thats all i need , i thought a boat was bad , does it ever end , every time i am in bass pro ,,or on e bay the wife thinks i am nuts ( well maybe she knows for a fact and just not saying nothin ) .. i am as confused as i was when i started this thread but a leased i have more information now .lol  

                                                        thanks everyone
                                                                And happy camping