an honest chat about rain and pop ups

[cbird]

Thanks to all for your notes. We anxiously await our first rain in the popup!

[AustinBoston]

We went through 8 1/2 inches of rain in less than 8 hours this last fall with nary a drop inside.  This was up in NW Missouri on the river across from Kansas (Leavenworth).  Morning came, clouds went away and the sun came out for a gorgeous day except for the flooding everywhere.  

It was amazing and I was frankly impressed with how dry we were with no condensation or anything.  I had lots of time to think since we couldn't sleep with the constant thunder.  What was interesting was the water that collected under the beds where the vinolon goes around and velcros on.  I just unhooked them and it fell out.  

It was the worst rainstorm (unforecasted of course) I have ever been in.  Imagine, a bad thunderstorm.  You know the ones that last for less than a half hour.  This one went on like that for 8 hours.

To cbird:  Pop-ups can be a dangerous place in a thunderstorm.  Pop-ups offer no protection from lightning, falling limbs/trees, extreme winds or tornadoes.  Be sure you are safe before deciding to ride out a T-storm in a pop-up.

I am sure Kavoom knew what they were doing and had thought the situation through.

Austin

[wavery]

Here's a handy tip for those of you that get stuck in a lightening storm. First off, the safest place in the world is in your car (assuming you don't have an all plastic car). The car offers you what is called a "Cone of protection". It is not likely to get struck because it has rubber tires and is not grounded. In the unlikely event that it does get struck,the metal in the car will absorb the lightening strike (often causing some damage to the car) and the occupants should be safe as long as they are not touching any metal.

The PU will offer some of the same properties but I suppose that there is a 1 in a billion chance that you could take a direct hit in the bunk end. However, the PU should be pretty thoroughly grounded it the jacks are on the wet ground. The lightening would then be more apt to hit the aluminum roof or siding and be directed to ground, thus putting you in that "Cone of protection". The aluminum roof, 4 side lifts (connecting the roof to the frame) and the frame itself should be an ideal "Faraday's cage,"  It would surely do a lot of damage to the electrical in the PU but the occupants should be a lot more safe than being outside or in a tent.

All  that being said, if a large bolt of lightening strikes anything near your body, you may well get hit by a "trailer", large enough to kill you. I guess the bottom line is, there is really no completely safe place to hide from lightening. Then again, that is surely not a big enough threat to determine the course of your decision making process of buying or staying in a PU.

I have studied this extensively because I spent many a years living on a boat, at sea and this is a real big concern in that situation.
http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/lightning.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d000001-d000100/d000007/d000007.html

As for tornadoes, that's a completely different story. In the event of a tornado bulletin, get the heck out. Have you ever wondered why so many trailer parks get hit by tornadoes?

Tornadoes are a phenomenon of very low pressure that comes from high up inside of a swirling mass of clouds and finds it's way to the earth. Kinda like when you flush your toilet. You overwhelm the toilet bowl with the high pressure of the water coming down from the tank. This forms a tunnel (if you will) of low pressure that actually sucks the water swirling down the very small drain hole at a very fast rate. You will notice that the "funnel" inside your toilet avoids touching the sides of the toilet. That's because there is higher pressure on the outside of the funnel wall and that pushes water away from the funnel and  steers the funnel away from the side of the toilet. However, the center of the funnel is desperately searching for an area of lower pressure from which to suck air up through that center of the funnel. In the case of the toilet, it is the much larger sewer pipe that has plenty of low pressure air available.

While the cone of the tornado is on the ground, it is constantly searching out areas of lower pressure (cold air) and avoiding areas of higher pressure (warm air). Aluminum is one of the best heat dispersement materials on earth. Therefore when warm air hits the aluminum it is quickly dispersed and causes the air to cool and fall to the ground. That's a small area of low pressure (air falling). If you get a lot of aluminum structures together, you have a real tornado magnet as the warmer air on the outside of the funnel is rapidly cooled by the aluminum siding on the structure and feeds the inside of the funnel with the cooler air.

I hope all that makes sense. The long & short is, if you live in an aluminum structure or camp in one, That's not the place to be in a tornado.

[tlhdoc]

The aluminum roof, 4 side lifts (connecting the roof to the frame) and the frame itself should be an ideal "Faraday's cage,"

One thing I would like to point out, there are many PUs with plastic or "canvas" tops.  One question I have is I thought the Faraday's cage went from the high spot down, which could end up being just the lift arms of the trailer.  The "cone" goes out on an angle, so there would be a lot of the PU that isn't in the "cone" of protection.  Since the frame of the PU is under the trailer and people are above it, I don't think it would offer much protection.  Am I wrong?
 
I don't stay in the PU during an electrical storm.  A building with wiring and plumbing is much safer than being in the PU.  If there isn't a building accessible, we go to the car.

[Kavoom]

>>I am sure Kavoom knew what they were doing and had thought the situation through.<<

Hah! I wish...  We were in a pretty safe area trees but not really too big, and there were a lot of targets in the campground besides us.  

Don't mention Tornados.  Living in Kansas and running from an F-4 the size of a field in May 04 (this only being my most recent) was not fun...

Kavoom

[Camping Coxes]

Have you ever wondered why so many trailer parks get hit by tornadoes?
 
If you get a lot of aluminum structures together, you have a real tornado magnet.

So when we on the west coast joke about the trailer parks in the midwest being tornado magnets, they really are tornado magnets???  Wow.  
 
I think in the interest of self-preservation, if there's a major storm involving lightening strikes, etc., it's time to bail out, take in a movie, whatever, and come back later for the trailer -- or what is left of it.

[tlhdoc]

I think in the interest of self-preservation, if there's a major storm involving lightening strikes, etc., it's time to bail out, take in a movie, whatever, and come back later for the trailer -- or what is left of it.

I agree.

[wavery]

One thing I would like to point out, there are many PUs with plastic or "canvas" tops.  One question I have is I thought the Faraday's cage went from the high spot down, which could end up being just the lift arms of the trailer.  The "cone" goes out on an angle, so there would be a lot of the PU that isn't in the "cone" of protection.  Since the frame of the PU is under the trailer and people are above it, I don't think it would offer much protection.  Am I wrong?
 
I don't stay in the PU during an electrical storm.  A building with wiring and plumbing is much safer than being in the PU.  If there isn't a building accessible, we go to the car.

I agree whole heartedly!!..................If that is an option.

The problem is.......often times some of us are camped out in the boonies. These lightening storms can come up pretty quickly, especially in the mountains. In this case, the car is the best option by far.

I just wouldn't want people to think that PUs are especially dangerous in lightning. IMHO, they are a lot safer then out in the open or (God forbid) under a tree :yikes:  (Absolutely the worst place to be). I didn't mean to imply that the PU was a safe haven   .

Having been hundreds of miles out at sea in many storms, I have seen lightning hit the water 100 ft away from the boat about once a minute, with lightning strikes averaging every 3 seconds. Being the only thing within so many miles and having 2 masts sticking up in the air 65', one would think that we would have been struck for sure. I never was. I think, for the most part, that lightning is going to strike where it's going to strike and if you happen to be close enough, you're gonna get hurt (or worse). I for one, am not going to live in fear of lightning. I actually love watching lightning (from a distance :p )

Having said that, if it gets bad enough, I'm heading for the car .

[jstaddwtr]

I realize that we are long past rain in this discussion but I just wanted to add....that rain has followed us evrywhere.  We ahve become experts in scurryig around in the rain trying to close up at the right time.....but we have no regrets.  

We have spent lots of time playing games and listening to the storm ooutside while we enjoy our family inside.  We ahve always stayed dry and cozy and grateful to have the PU.  

We don't post much but this is one where we could identify.  Can hardlly think of being without rain.   See Traci....it was our fault when it rained
at your outing when we met.  We forgot to tell you of our luck!

What we don't miss is all the times we tented and spent a good deal of the time waiting for a break in the weather to get everything dry again.

[tlhdoc]

We don't post much but this is one where we could identify. Can hardlly think of being without rain. See Traci....it was our fault when it rained
at your outing when we met. We forgot to tell you of our luck!

Ha don't blame yourself, we get rained on most of the time, even when you are not along on the trip.
 
How are you guys doing?  Any camping on the horizon?  COTOC has several trips planned this coming season.  If you can join us.  It doesn't matter what you are camping in.  Our first trip is only 20 days away.

[jstaddwtr]

Ha don't blame yourself, we get rained on most of the time, even when you are not along on the trip.
 
How are you guys doing?  Any camping on the horizon?  COTOC has several trips planned this coming season.  If you can join us.  It doesn't matter what you are camping in.  Our first trip is only 20 days away.

Thanks!

We still have our Utah..ready to be sold, but we keep making excuses for not parting!  Thanks for the invitation!!!!!   Stay dry!

[Kavoom]

Oh, I forgot to tell you about the hail here.  You seldom find a vehicle "ungaraged" here over three years old without a few hail dings.  Some look like an insane person with a ball pean hammer got loose.  My first Suby got it and my new one just barely escaped this last summer.  

I come from Indiana and it doesn't suffer from a lack of tornado's or thunderstorms, but Kansas is something else and I don't live in the worst parts like south west and northern Oklahoma.  

Storms that you might have once every three years or so in Indiana are 3 times a year here.  But you seldom have to buy a roof.  Wait five years and the hail will buy you a new one with insurance...but then that goes up...  

I suggest checking the weather before clicking your heels together three times and hang on tight to Toto too.  But at least the ground stays still here.  I like that.  You can generally see a bad one coming here.  I've driven 10 miles to get away from known hail.  In CA you just get to sit there and take it when the ground moves...