OT: The joys of home ownership (wiring)

[AustinBoston]

When we bought our house in Minnesota, it had an out-building.  The previous owner had used it for his business, and was only selling because he could no longer operate in the equivalent of a two-car garage with office.

One of the things he left behind was an electrical system that was in questionable condition.  My planned first step was to replace the panel, a big old fuse panel with the cover missing (i.e. exposed wiring).

Before proceeding, I decided to check on how it is supposed to be connected (versus how it is connected).  I'm not sure if I wish I hadn't, or I'm glad I did.

The way this is wired (feeding from the main panel in the house) may have been legal at the time, but is now both illegal and dangerous.  The only way I can make it safe is to either pull new cable from the main panel, or remove (not just disconnect) both the phone and the gas line (the only source of heat).

There are two ways to wire an out-building from a main panel.  The first (and simplest) is to run a three-conductor cable (Hot-Hot-Neutral) out to the building, and have a grounding system bonded to the neutral at the out building.  This is how this was done.  But this is actually dangerous if there is any potential or actual metallic connection back to the main panel (phone lines, water/gas pipes, cable, network, etc.).  The problem is that there can be (and in use, will be) a significant voltage difference between the neutral/ground in the second building and the neutral/ground in the out building, leading to different ground potentials within one building.  You could get a potentially fatal shock by answering the phone while holding a properly grounded tool (the phone is grounded at the house, the tool at the shed).

I have two such secondary connections, a phone line and a metallic gas line.  If it was just the phone line, I would rip it out and go with a cordless phone.  But I'm not ripping out the gas line.

The other system for wiring an out-building has four conductors from the panel (hot-hot-neutral-ground) and a grounding system in the outbuilding that is connected only to the ground side.  The neutral must only be connected to ground back at the main panel in the house.  This arrangement is always legal, but in my case requires a fourth conductor (the ground wire).  I would just pull a 6 gauge ground wire, but the existing cable runs through conduits in several places that will not accomodate an additional wire.  The conduit will accomodate a new cable (4 cond. 6 gauge).

I'm actually a bit ticked at our home inspector.  She spent a good deal of time going over that panel (specifically looking at the grounding), but did not pick up this defect.

If I were to hire someone to replace this cable and wire the new panel (he would be required to do both since the existing panel in the garage does not meet code), I would expect it to cost more than $1500.  I will do it myself (yes, I am qualified), but it's going to be a royal pain.

Oh, and instead of being an "I'll get around to it" job, it's a priority because it is a safety issue.

Austin

[Calstate361]

POOR YOU! I can relate.
 
We have been in our house for 9 years now and we also hired a seperate house inspector because the house was build in 1958. We recently had to remodel our main bathroom because the tub (cast iron) was pulling away from the outside wall. Now this tub/shower had a window in it that came down to just below shoulder level and we figured that water was getting behind the wall and running down because the wood support under the tub lip was rotting out. Well when the tile wall was taken out the wall behind it was rotted all the way out to the siding. The siding and the tile wall were the only things holding up the wall. The contractor said that the rotting was going on way before we purchased the house. You would have thought the inspector would have seen it when he went under the house.
 
I don't understand what these inspectors look for because there was evidence of mold and cauking patched along that whole seam between the tub and the tile wall. So, it ended up costing us a lot more than was estimated because the contractor had to replace the whole wall and the support beams under the floor. It's so disgusting what we end up having to do, and of course, you have no recourse!
 
Joan

[wavery]

Is there any possibility of going back on your home inspector?

I bought a house once and about a year later we found wood-rot in the attic. The home inspector paid $6,000 to replace part of the roof. All it took was a phone call. I got no resistance from them at all. They supposedly inspected the attic before the purchase. It was obvious that they never even went up there.

Good luck with it....sounds like it's gonna cut into your camping :mad: .

[AustinBoston]

Is there any possibility of going back on your home inspector?

I would tend to doubt it...it's been 2-1/2 years.

I bought a house once and about a year later we found wood-rot in the attic. The home inspector paid $6,000 to replace part of the roof. All it took was a phone call. I got no resistance from them at all. They supposedly inspected the attic before the purchase. It was obvious that they never even went up there.

In this case, she spent a good deal of time looking at it.  In addition, the setup is legal and safe under specific circumstances, just not these circumstances.

Good luck with it....sounds like it's gonna cut into your camping :mad: .

I'll probably do this before the season starts...but it will definitely cut into the camping budget. :mad:

Austin

[dthurk]

Geez, AB, don't know what to say.  Sorry.