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Hooking up camp oven to PU LP line

Started by howlinowl, Jun 21, 2006, 11:55 PM

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howlinowl

When I purchased my used pop up, it came with one of Cabela's Outback Camp Ovens.  Link is below:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0030006517180a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&QueryText=oven&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=oven&noImage=0

It's never been used, and we did not take it on our first trip.  

What I've been thinking, is that I don't need to take this AND the factory supplied 2 burner stove.   What I want to do is remove the stove and counter assy, (easy, as it is a coleman taos and is designed to be removed and hung outside the PU), build a regular countertop to go in it's place and set this on top and hook it to the LP that originally fed the stove.

The camp stove came with a hose and regulator to hook to a LP tank.  Since the PU has it's own regulator, I thought I'd toss the hose and reg from this and connect it directly to the quick connect on the PU.

My question is this:  Will this work with the PU regulator?  Or is the regulator for the PU a different setting (flow, PSI) than the camp stove regulator?  Also, do they make a hose to connect other appliances to the quick disconnect?  PU has one outside to hook the stove into when using it outdoors, so it seems that if this would work, they may make a hose so you can use a variety of appliances (gas grill, propane lanterns) outside on that connection.

Thanks,
Allan

howlinowl

No replies yet?  Ok. I looked at the instruction manual for the camp oven.  It states the "Pressure Imput" (maybe they meant input, but that is how it is spelled in the manual).  28 GR/CM2, 11 inches H2O for propane gas.

I also checked the manual for the Taos, it states:
the low pressure regulator reduces the pressure as 6.35 ounces or 11 inches water column outlet  pressure.

Looks to be 2 regulators on the Taos, a small one that feeds into a large one.  I am guessing the large is a high pressure reg and the small is a low pressure reg, and that they are installed that way because the Taos only has the camp stove, no furnace or water heater that may or may not use high pressure gas.  

I am guessing (again) that these pressures are the same, as they are both 11 inches H2O.  Anybody know how to convert the 6.35 ounces to the 28 GR/CM2 to confirm this???  

Worse case, I hook it up this weekend and see if she goes boom....

Allan

mike4947

Since the only standard propane pressure that uses inches of water,  grams per centimeter squared, or ounces is low pressure you are safe connecting it up.

The three basic pressures are:
 
Low..11 column inches of water which is less than 1 PSI
high..13 PSI
tank..several hundred PSI
 
And you are correct the regulator is a two stage. The first stage drops tank pressure to high pressure and the second from high to low pressure. FYI: there are signle stage regualtors that drop tank pressure to low pressure but they are only rated for fixed installations. Theya re not rated for RV use mainly because they are not vibration proof and are easily damaged by what they get hooked to an RV driving.

SpeakEasy

Quote from: mike4947Since the only standard propane pressure that uses inches of water,  grams per centimeter squared, or ounces is low pressure you are safe connecting it up.

The three basic pressures are:
 
Low..11 column inches of water which is less than 1 PSI
high..13 PSI
tank..several hundred PSI
 
And you are correct the regulator is a two stage. The first stage drops tank pressure to high pressure and the second from high to low pressure. FYI: there are signle stage regualtors that drop tank pressure to low pressure but they are only rated for fixed installations. Theya re not rated for RV use mainly because they are not vibration proof and are easily damaged by what they get hooked to an RV driving.

There are some things in your post, mike4947 that I don't understand, and some that seem to me to lead in a couple of different directions. That's why I'm going to ask you to 'splain.

According to my coleman/fleetwood service dept, (who has made mistakes before), the outside stove is a "high pressure" appliance. If this is true, then the answer to Allan's question (using your "three pressures" information) would be - No, don't use the oven on the outside stove outlet. My reasoning? Using your numbers, high pressure is 13 PSI, outside stove is high pressure, camp oven is labeled for 11 water column inches, camp oven is low pressure.

My next question is about your statement that single stage regulators are not used in rv's. My upstream regulator of my two-stage regulator system recently failed, and I went to an rv-supply store to see if they had a replacement. They were not a coleman/fleetwood dealer. The regulators they had for replacements for rv's in general were single stage, 11 water-column-inch regulators. They also had some two-stage regulators, but they were quite different from what I have. The service guy said they were for the 100 lb tanks that you sometimes see on park models and such. The service guy there said that the 11 water-column inch type was for rv's. Before I bought it I called my coleman/fleetwood service dept to ask if this would be a correct replacement for the upstream regulator. They said yes, it was correct. So I bought it and have installed it.

Based on your numbers it would appear that I made a mistake and that my coleman/fleetwood service guy told me the wrong thing. Here's why: immediately downstream from the regulator in question is a T. The "high pressure" outside stove line goes off one side of the T. The second stage regulator goes off the other side of the T. All the inside appliances are downstream from the second regulator. Using your numbers, the first regulator would have to bring the pressure down to 13 PSI and run the outside high-pressure stove, then the second regulator would bring it down to 11 water-column inches for all the inside appliances. This makes sense, but it doesn't align with what my coleman/fleetwood service guy said and what the service guy I bought the regulator from said and what he had on hand. I specifically asked him about a high-pressure regulator and he didn't know what I was talking about.

So, my question is - what's the source of your information about the three different pressures? I have always wondered about the different lp gas pressures, and you are the first source that I've heard that put actual numbers to it.

My next question is, why do you say that single-stage 11 water-column inch regulators are not used in rv's when that's what the rv supply place sold me?

(I'm not asking these questions to put you on the defensive, so I hope you don't take it that way. I really want to understand this stuff because of the potential danger involved in mis-using gas.)

Thanks,
-Speak

SpeakEasy

I've been able to get answers to at least SOME of the questions I posted.

I called the factory and spoke with someone there who sounded like he knew what he was talking about. He said that, yes, I had made a mistake buying and installing the 11 water-column inch regulator as a replacement for the first stage. The first stage is, in fact, the high-pressure regulator and brings the pressure down to (I think he said 16 PSI, not 13 PSI, but I could be mistaken.)

So now I have to get a high-pressure regulator instead of the one I have currently installed. The good news is that the one I have is a corrrect replacement for the second stage regulator, so I have it for when that one fails. I may just go ahead and replace it on the theory that if one failed the second one is probably not far behind.

That still leaves my concern about howlinowl using his camp oven on the outside stove connector.

-Speak

howlinowl

I may not get it hooked up this weekend.... Took call for another employee for Sunday so he could visit his kids.  I got yard work and a coolant leak in my Ranger to take a look at Saturday.  I'll do some more research, but I believe that Mike is right and it will work.  Is it the stove in the Coleman camper that is high pressure?  Or, maybe the confusion is the Coleman Camp stove that you take camping with you that uses the little disposable bottles of propane that is high pressure??  The Coleman camper is a Coleman in name only... licenced to Fleetwood and Fleetwood put whoever's stove in they wanted.  The little coleman campstoves that use the disposable tanks are imported and labeled as Coleman by Coleman, I believe, and are a completely different animal.  That, and I don't believe they have any kind of regulator on them at all, so they use the high pressure gas from the disposable bottle.....

Allan

mike4947

It does get confusing doesn't it.

I'll try to clarify and hopefully won't make it more confusing.
 
Single stage low pressure regulators are indeed not RV rated. On the Fleetwood/Coleman trailers that have a high pressure outlet on the side of the trailer come with first a single state high pressure regulator that has the tap going to the trailer side connection. Then there is a seperate regulator that drops the high pressure to low pressure and that regulator fed all the inside appliances.
The reason for two regulators is there are no RV rated regulators that have a tap where you can connect a line for high pressure. Note that currently Fleetwood has dropped the high pressure outside connection and has reverted to a low pressure connection for outside use.
 
And the single unit drop to low pressure regulators that dealer had are indeed normal for FIXED locations where 100 pound tanks are used for seasonal campers. They don't get moved with the trailers they stay with the tanks. A lot cheaper than dual stage regulators.
 
As for what can connect to what. Most all small stoves use the 1 pound cylinders. Since the cylinders have the same tank pressure there has to be some internal regulation inside the stove to drop that tank pressure to something that can be used.
Some appliances use a regualtor set for low pressure and others use one et for high pressure. As long as the source is as high or higher than the end usage the system will work.
A low pressure stove can be used with a low pressure line, a high pressure line, or tank pressure be it from a one pound cylinder or a 20 pound tank on the trailer tongue with a tap before the trailer regulator.
A high pressure stove of course has an internal high pressure regulator so low a low pressure line will not furnish enough gas flow, but it also can be used with tank pressure.
Aappliances where the regualtor is attached to the source and not internal is where you get into real trouble. A stove/BBQ designed to be hooked to a low pressure line such as an in/out stove that is hooked to a high pressure line will have apx 13+ times the pressure at the burner and will generate flames 3-4 feet high. An appliance without an internal regualtor designed to be on a high pressure line won't light on a low pressure line as it will receive 1/13 the gas it needs.
Either of those type of non regulated appliances hooked directly to tank pressure will cause in most cases a fire ball that will curl nose hairs at 20 feet and damage most everything within 10 feet.

dthurston

So, what should I be looking for to see that a CharBroil portable grill might work off of the LP connection on the side my 94 Starcraft?

It uses a quick-connect, which I bet I could find a hose to adapt it to the grill, which is setup to use the 1 pound canisters.

For simplicity's sake, we bought a couple of the small tanks while we figure out what can be done with the on-board tanks.

On a side note, is there any reason I can't just cap the feed hose from the second tank on my rig and then use a single hose from it to the grill?

I can gladly post pics of the tank and regulator setup if it would help.

TIA, it's been educational already just reading what others have been through.