what about this Coleman ABS roof thing???

[mscott2154]

Hello all,
I'm new to the forums and haven't been camping in about 10 years. I bought a 2001 Coleman Utah a few months ago and myself and the family have been having a great time camping in it at some of the State Parks here in Ohio.

However, now that I'm an avid camping forum reader I keep seeing all these horror stories about ABS roofs sagging, cracking, splitting, and being factory defective junk. Now I'm developing a complex about it!!! My roof seems to be in perfect shape with none of these problems.....YET..........

Should I expect all of this to happen?? Were there only certain years or models that had these problems?? Are there large numbers of these defective roofs or is it small but vocal group of dissatified owners. I know mine was not covered or stored inside for at least part of its life. If its widespread why is mine in such nice shape after 5 years??? Oh, and it does have roof air but no sag at all...
I'm very interested in hearing some opinions on this.. Thanks
Martin

[edwardr132]

I currently own a 2000 Seapine model with the ABS roof.  I have a brace in the middle.  I have heard that those without the brace, the ABS roofs tend to have a problem.  I don't plan on putting "anything" at all on top of my ABS roof, except for a bike rack which only has the rear tires of bikes on the roof.  I don't have AC either and right now don't plan on adding it.  Personally, I love the ABS roof look compared to the other roof designs.  Of course, I didn't know about this ABS roof problem stuff before I bought my pop-up.  I have only owned my pop-up for about 4 months now.  Up to 10 days camping now with it though.

I have had "other problems with my pop-up though in the four months.  

1) lift broke;  apparently prior owner did cheap fix which broke right away.  fixed it myself

2) Added new tires, but put weight of pop-up on only the leverers.  Big mistake; Fortunately one of them failed after putting the tires on it, instead of before.

3) Exterior Camping stove has "big problems with getting heat to it".  Replaced it with portable LPG stove and a cable that still hooks into pop-up.

4) Tried hooking up water to it and portable pump leaked water in the cabin.  Replaced the portable pump with $80 new one from dealer.  I think I need a better water pump.

Other minor problems as well.  I personally hope the roof lasts for years and years.  I think I figured out that these pop-ups are rather tempermental and need to be babied a little bit.

[wynot]

Hello all,
I'm new to the forums and haven't been camping in about 10 years. I bought a 2001 Coleman Utah a few months ago and myself and the family have been having a great time camping in it at some of the State Parks here in Ohio.
 
However, now that I'm an avid camping forum reader I keep seeing all these horror stories about ABS roofs sagging, cracking, splitting, and being factory defective junk. Now I'm developing a complex about it!!! My roof seems to be in perfect shape with none of these problems.....YET..........
 

Martin,
 
I don't know that you are necessarily hearing about the ABS roofs when people talk about cracks and splitting, I only see about the ABS panels causing that problem, but I'm sure someone's roof could have failed.
 
We have a 2001 Utah which we bought new.  The roof has bowed up a little bit in the rear center and the roof sits out a little on the sides, but still seals.
 
We have had the cracked/split corners on the ABS front and rear panels and the right front bottom of the panel has split slightly (about 2 inches).
 
My suggestion, don't worry about it and deal with it if something actually happens.  I did have to get the front and rear panels replaced, but in 3 years, I haven't done anything to that lower right front side crack and it hasn't changed.

[AustinBoston]

I'm new to the forums and haven't been camping in about 10 years. I bought a 2001 Coleman Utah a few months ago and myself and the family have been having a great time camping in it at some of the State Parks here in Ohio.

Almost all roofs that sag do so in the first 2-3 years.  With the first few years of the ABS roof (1996-1999) it was a major problem, with some reports that as many as 10% of the roofs failed.  Back then, I heard of several people having their roof fail due to sag.  One person had their roof replaced three times.

Partway through the 1999 model year, an internal brace was added to prevent the sag.  YOU CAN NOT SEE THE BRACE.  The one that goes across side-to-side has always been there, and roof sag can occur with that brace because it always has occured with that brace.  The internal brace meant to prevent the roof sag is inside the roof and runs front-to-back.

It didn't work, at least not completely.  While the number of roofs with roof sag was greatly reduced, it continued to happen on some newer trailers.

Finally, in 2003, Fleetwood called the cards on the ABS roof, and went back to the 2-piece composite (I think plywood/ aluminum) roof.

Should I expect all of this to happen?? Were there only certain years or models that had these problems??

There is a small chance it could happen.  99% chance that if it hasn't yet, it won't ever happen.  But never say never.

Are there large numbers of these defective roofs or is it small but vocal group of dissatified owners.

I mentioned the 10% number.  For such an expensive component, that number is huge.

It is a real inconvenience if a first owner has a roof fail by sag (and, with most units now, also a significant cost).  For subsequent owners (who have to bear the entire cost), it can be a huge expense, possibly running as high as $2,000 (depending on shipping distance from the factory in PA).

These roofs were marketed as a huge improvement, and everyone - owners, Fleetwood, and the outsource manufactuers - all got burned.

When the problems first started to show up, Fleetwood tried to actively deny that there was a problem.  They told everyone "Well, you are the first one with this problem!" when they were already seeing hundreds of them come back.  They were trying to prevent a recall (and ended up succeeding).

I know mine was not covered or stored inside for at least part of its life. If its widespread why is mine in such nice shape after 5 years??? Oh, and it does have roof air but no sag at all...

Fleetwood never did identify an underlying cause.  Believe me, they spent a fortune trying to get to the bottom of the problem - it was costing them a fortune.  They eventually gave up and went back to an older style.

Some of the things that were supposed to be a factor:
* 12 foot box (longer roof)
* based in southwest (high heat)
* has an A/C or roof storage racks

But I know there have been roofs fail that didn't have any of those, and others that are 10 years old with all of them and still going strong.

My pop-up has never been covered or stored inside.  It's baked in the sun at over 110

[mscott2154]

Well, I feel better after reading some of the comments. It makes sense that things would have gone wrong with it by now so I'll stop worrying. I was kind of stressing over buying a PUP seemed to be considered a "lemon".

I'm very happy with this camper. Its so spacious and easy to operate with the electric lift Its loaded with all the bells and whistles I didn't have in my first one ('95 Skamper). The minute I saw it at Tom Raper's RV's in Indiana I knew I would buy it. Everything has worked great so far. I'm pretty handy so modifications, repairs, and replacements are not a problem.

I've found a wealth of information on here and other forums so I'm anxious to start making changes and improvements to it.    

Thanks for the great info.............

[tlhdoc]

I have a 1999 that I purchased new.  It sagged in 2003.  I really liked the ABS roof, but couldn't get a replacement one, I have the AlumiTite that has its own problems.  Yes ABS roofs can sag, crack, develop blisters and spread.  Who knows if your roof will have this happen.  Until it does, don't worry about it and enjoy the camper.

[griffsdad]

Partway through the 1999 model year, an internal brace was added to prevent the sag. YOU CAN NOT SEE THE BRACE. The one that goes across side-to-side has always been there, and roof sag can occur with that brace because it always has occured with that brace. The internal brace meant to prevent the roof sag is inside the roof and runs front-to-back.
Austin

Actually, that's not entirely true, at least not for our 2002 Coleman-by-Fleetwood Sun Valley. Ours has an interior (not sure if that's what you meant by internal, AB) brace that you can see spanning the width of the camper's ceiling at the very top of this picture:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/52510275/1052510822040023405dcAVFw
 
Our camper has the 12-foot box, has Yakima kayak roof racks on it and has been stored outside, uncovered, in Southern California weather for the 4.5 years we've owned it. We have not had a smidgen of sag problem with our camper and we bought it new in April of 2002.

[AustinBoston]

Actually, that's not entirely true, at least not for our 2002 Coleman-by-Fleetwood Sun Valley. Ours has an interior (not sure if that's what you meant by internal, AB) brace that you can see spanning the width of the camper's ceiling at the very top of this picture:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/52510275/1052510822040023405dcAVFw

Every Coleman/Fleetwood pop-up with an ABS roof ever made has that cross-brace.  It's there to support the weight of an A/C, not to prevent sag.  The brace that was added in '99 is between the upper and lower ABS shell.  It's not obvious, but the ABS roof is two shells with (I think) 2" of foam in between them.  The brace that was added to prevent sag is between those two shells and runs front to back.

Austin

[SherryandFamily]

We had a 1999 Utah and we did have roof sag.  Ours was replaced a couple of years ago.
The bow on the sides was our first sign, then we started getting water inside when it was popped down.
I don't know what the percentage or problems is, but I think it is very low.
We have friends with a 2000 Utah and they haven't had any problems at all.
I hope all goes well with yours.
Sherry