Towing

[kmc_78]

Dh and I are looking for a new-to-us PU.  Our 99 Dodge Grand Caravan says it can tow 3500.  My question is this...when totalling how much you're actually towing, do you include the weight of your passengers??  One dealership told us yes, the other told us no.  Just wondering what you experts thought on the topic before we go and purchase something that will end up being too heavy if we have to include our own weight.  Thanks in advance!!

~Kelly

[Floridajeeper]

Passengers absolutely count...that dealer who said NO is not very smart.

Each vehicle has a GCWR (gross combined weight rating) which is how much the vehicle, passengers and cargo weigh COMBINED with how much the trailer, cargo etc weigh.  People are actually cargo when in a vehicle.  4 people at a total weight of 600# is a lot of weight to just dismiss when figuring towing capacity...especially with a smaller tow rig.

[Ira_P]

Chrysler Recommends a WDH for trailers above 2000 lbs, and that means you need a class 3 hitch. We used to have a 2001 Grand caravan, and it had a very soft suspension.  Loaded up with cargo and a trailer weighing 1900 lbs ( loaded ) the rear of the Caravan really sagged. We had a class 2 hitch, so a WDH was not a option for us, instead I added a set of Air Bags ( Air Lift, I believe ) to keep the van level when towing. Keep in mind, this does not distribute the weight to both axles like a WDH, but as long as you don't over load the rear axle, air bags are good solution to the sag.

Watch your weights and the Grand Caravan will tow just fine for you. Also make sure you have the larger transmission cooler installed. The Caravan normaly has the smaller cooler, unless you have the towing package.

DW loved the Caravan, but we lost it in an accident. We upgraded to an Explorer. Less cargo space, a lot more towing capacity, and my DW can get to work in the rare snow storms here.

[SpeakEasy]

Passengers absolutely count...that dealer who said NO is not very smart.

Each vehicle has a GCWR (gross combined weight rating) which is how much the vehicle, passengers and cargo weigh COMBINED with how much the trailer, cargo etc weigh.  People are actually cargo when in a vehicle.  4 people at a total weight of 600# is a lot of weight to just dismiss when figuring towing capacity...especially with a smaller tow rig.

This question comes up often.

Must be Floridajeeper has missed some of the finer points of the answer.

Actually it depends on how the vehicle manufacturer reports towing capacity. Some include passengers and cargo weight in "towing capacity" and others don't.  

Your tow vehicle owner's manual is the only place you can get an authoritative answer for your vehicle. If the dealership that told you passengers and cargo doesn't "count" against your towing capacity was a Toyota dealer, then that dealer was correct.

I got into a big, almost heated debate last summer with a few people here on this board. I won't repeat that now, but the bottom line is - check your owner's manual.

-Speak

[wavery]

This question comes up often.

If the dealership that told you passengers and cargo doesn't "count" against your towing capacity was a Toyota dealer, then that dealer was correct.

 

-Speak

BOY!!! Now there's a leap of faith :yikes: .

Trust me.....there is a 75% chance that the person that was asked at the dealership was guessing and has never heard the term "GCWR" in his life. If he was a salesman, he was probably delivering pizzas last week and flipping burgers the week before. I was a Dealership Service Manager for many years. The question of towing and load weight limits seldom (if ever) came up. When it did, most customers would go straight to an uneducated salesman that could care less and would tell you anything to get rid of you (If you weren't a perspective car buyer).

Floridajeeper is correct about GCWR. The bottom line is.....the GCWR (gross combined weight rating) is what counts and it does include passengers (400#ers as well as 98#ers), trailer tongue weight and/or cargo in the vehicle.

Towing capacity is another subject. It has to do with the power (torque), transmission capacity, braking capacity and chassis/suspension strength. It is determined by the manufacturer but has little to do with the GCWR. Only where it pertains to tongue weight.

All of these weight limit numbers are very "Iffy" at best. They are originally determined by engineers, changed by marketing people that determine how those numbers will effect market share then they are gone over by attorneys to determine how those numbers will effect liability. You would think that the attorneys and engineers would have the last say but the fact is, it is the marketing people that have the most say so. Liability plays a very small part in the total picture and the engineers "Suggestions" are taken into account as it pertains to warranty repair costs. The manufacturer's primary concern is profit. The marketing people are the ones that are the experts in deriving the most bang for the buck and that's the bottom line (literally). It's all about market share and if it means fudjing the numbers to keep them right in the market place, they will do it (IMO).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_vehicle_weight_rating
http://www.airstream.com/airstream/product_line/customer_service/docs/gvwr.pdf

[kmc_78]

Wow...well thank you all for your answers.  I don't understand what most of it means.  lol  I guess what it tells me is just to find a PU that weighs as little as possible that will still meet our needs.  But thanks for all your answers.

Oh, btw, the two dealers that told gave me two different answers were RV dealers.  So hard tellin.  It makes sense to me that passenger weight would matter, so that's what I'm gonna go with.  Well just find something that's on the lighter end.

Wish us luck!  Going out shopping again on Saturday!  Any opinions on a 97 Coleman Bayport?  Anything I should specifically check or watch out for?

Thanks again,
~Kelly

[wavery]

Wow...well thank you all for your answers.  I don't understand what most of it means.  lol  I guess what it tells me is just to find a PU that weighs as little as possible that will still meet our needs.  But thanks for all your answers.

Oh, btw, the two dealers that told gave me two different answers were RV dealers.  So hard tellin.  It makes sense to me that passenger weight would matter, so that's what I'm gonna go with.  Well just find something that's on the lighter end.

Wish us luck!  Going out shopping again on Saturday!  Any opinions on a 97 Coleman Bayport?  Anything I should specifically check or watch out for?

Thanks again,
~Kelly

HMMMMM!! Not sure how you came to that conclusion. We have a 2002 Coleman Tacoma (12' box). I weighed it fully loaded at 3020# (pretty maxed out). I wouldn't hesitate to tow it with your van (after I installed a very large tranny cooler) if it has the large V6 . I would just be careful not to overload the van.

[AustinBoston]

If the dealership that told you passengers and cargo doesn't "count" against your towing capacity was a Toyota dealer, then that dealer was correct.

The OP said his tow vehicle was a '99 Dodge Caravan.  The dealership was absolutely, totally full of it.

Austin

[Tim Haskett]

The towing books that I have read, always include the weight of the passengers.  99% of car salemen do not know what they are talking about when it comes to towing weight.  It can be a confusing and complicated subject and many salesman just don't take the time to read objective towing information, such as boat and horse trailer books.  Remember, they want to sell you a car.  Tim

[Nemesis56]

Dh and I are looking for a new-to-us PU.  Our 99 Dodge Grand Caravan says it can tow 3500.  My question is this...when totalling how much you're actually towing, do you include the weight of your passengers??  One dealership told us yes, the other told us no.  Just wondering what you experts thought on the topic before we go and purchase something that will end up being too heavy if we have to include our own weight.  Thanks in advance!!

~Kelly

My 2003 Chevy Venture has a 3500 # capacity and tow package from the factory.  The owner's manual has a towing supplement and it says to absolutely include the passnegers and luggage when figuring tow weight.  The salesman and dealership had no clue about towing and told me to call GM directly or go online. I had done alot of reseach and picked the Warner Brothers Edition because of the extra towing capacity, auto-leveling system and the auxillary power jacks all over the interior and rear compartment.  The extended wheelbase and rear compartment are excellent.  The DVD entertainment center is great on longs trips too.

[ScoobyDoo]

Feb '05 I decided my 20 year old F150 needed replaced. I biked to the local blue oval, asked the "salesman" about tow capacity on 150s and Rangers. He handed me a stack of paper and walked away. Next door was a bowtie. Same ?, more paper and a CD. never owned a Dodge in my life but the dealer was next in line. Asked the salesman about tow capacity, he looked at me like he had never heard the words before said "I don't know but I will find out"
   That kid sold a new truck that day and a new car 6 months later...

[AustinBoston]

Asked the salesman about tow capacity, he looked at me like he had never heard the words before said "I don't know but I will find out"
   That kid sold a new truck that day and a new car 6 months later...

PLEASE tell us where this dealer is; I'm sure many of us would travel a very long ways to do business with an honest car/truck salesman.  :yikes:

Imagine that..."I don't know..." instead of a pack of lies about "sure, it'll tow that" when they are clueless.  :confused:

Austin