Beware using Jiffy Lube!!

[wavery]

Had a patient the other day that says he only changes his filters, and adds enough oil to bring it up to "full". I asked what the most miles he ever had on any oil was. He couldn't answer that question straight, but he did have a VW Rabbit diesel that had 450K miles on it when he sold it, and it had had about 6 oil changes. Those oil changes, he said, were only because he would replace a pan gasket or something that required draining all the oil anyway.

I fall somewhere in between all this. I change my own oil, and I use Pennzoil Platinum. My Nissan ran MUCH better with it, and I think my Chevy does too. I follow Chevy's Oil Life Monitor, and, on my first oil change, I had close to 7K miles on the oil. After much research on this subject, I am very comfortable extending my oil mileage, especially when using the expensive Pennzoil Platinum.

I am changing all the fluids to synthetics as their change need arises.

Larry

Changing to synthetics is a wise move IMHO. It has much better cooling capabilities. You can go about double the mileage with synthetics but I would not recommend only changing the filter.

I'd hate to tell you how many engines we tore down from people following that advise. I remember one in particular. The oil pan was so full of sludge that the oil wouldn't drain out. When we removed the oil pan, the sludge had to be dug out of the pan with a trowel. The guy was all upset because his engine seized with only 70K miles on it. We had to replace the crankshaft, camshaft, lifters, pistons and all bearings. It was just short of needing a complete engine.

The engine was running on about 1 quart of oil and eventually the main bearings over-heated and seized to the crankshaft.

I run synthetic oil in all my engines and transmissions. Even my generator and my pressure washer.

[GeneF]

This may be changing the topic a little but what is the advantage of the synthetic stuff?

My Nissan Altima, purchased new, has 129,000 miles on it.  I change the oil filter and oil every 3500 to 4000 miles.  The car doesn't burn any oil and runs great.

Silverado, I just traded, had 95000 miles on it and I did the above plus changed the transmission fluid once a year.  Didn't use oil.  Didn't really need too if I followed the owner's manual but the truck was mainly used to haul the camper.

I have read that following the mfg's service is the way to go.  5 or 6000 miles seems to be the recommendation for an oil and filter change.

Are we wasting money with using synthetic stuff and changing oil and filter sooner.

Sorry if I am hijacking this thread.

[brainpause]

This may be changing the topic a little but what is the advantage of the synthetic stuff?

My Nissan Altima, purchased new, has 129,000 miles on it.  I change the oil filter and oil every 3500 to 4000 miles.  The car doesn't burn any oil and runs great.

Silverado, I just traded, had 95000 miles on it and I did the above plus changed the transmission fluid once a year.  Didn't use oil.  Didn't really need too if I followed the owner's manual but the truck was mainly used to haul the camper.

I have read that following the mfg's service is the way to go.  5 or 6000 miles seems to be the recommendation for an oil and filter change.

Are we wasting money with using synthetic stuff and changing oil and filter sooner.

Sorry if I am hijacking this thread.

I agree with Wayne in that the synthetics have better cooling abilities. The synthetics also are touted to not break down like the dinosaur oils. However, some will argue that point.

It is not as obvious with my Silverado V8, but I was convinced that my Nissan Frontier with 4-cylinder ran better and got about 1 mpg better gas mileage. I think it also ran slightly quieter, but I don't have any tests to prove it.

I use the Oil Life monitor in my truck, which takes into account engine loads, RPM's, time in Tow/Haul mode, etc., to calculate oil life.

I have used synthetics in my ATV's since day one, and am very happy. These units aren't run much, but when they are, they get lots of wear. I am on year 8 on one and year 7 on the other. Still running well. I adjusted the valves on one of them last year, and the top end looked great.

Larry

[wavery]

This may be changing the topic a little but what is the advantage of the synthetic stuff?

My Nissan Altima, purchased new, has 129,000 miles on it.  I change the oil filter and oil every 3500 to 4000 miles.  The car doesn't burn any oil and runs great.

Silverado, I just traded, had 95000 miles on it and I did the above plus changed the transmission fluid once a year.  Didn't use oil.  Didn't really need too if I followed the owner's manual but the truck was mainly used to haul the camper.

I have read that following the mfg's service is the way to go.  5 or 6000 miles seems to be the recommendation for an oil and filter change.

Are we wasting money with using synthetic stuff and changing oil and filter sooner.

Sorry if I am hijacking this thread.

The synthetic oils can dissipate heat a lot faster than petroleums and will not break down at higher temps like petroleum oil. They also don't need the additives that petroleum's do. It is the additives and pollution of the petroleum oils from acids (and other pollutants) that force us to change the oil. Synthetic oils are not as badly effected by the acids and therefore you don't have to change the oil as often.

Synthetics also have a better "Pour rate". That means that the oil is distributed throughout the engine faster upon start-up, when it is needed the most. It also has a better "Cling rate" which means that your engine parts will stay covered with oil longer, after shut down. Up to 50% of engine wear is caused by the first 10 seconds of engine running upon start-up while the engine is running with little to no lubrication.

GM has done research (years ago) that showed it was only necessary to change synthetic oil every 10K miles. There is a big struggle at GM whether or not to use synthetics in new vehicles and advertise the 10K oil change. On one hand, it would be a good marketing tool for new vehicles. On the other hand, the customer would not be visiting the dealership as often and may lose customer loyalty.

[AustinBoston]

GM has done research (years ago) that showed it was only necessary to change synthetic oil every 10K miles. There is a big struggle at GM whether or not to use synthetics in new vehicles and advertise the 10K oil change. On one hand, it would be a good marketing tool for new vehicles. On the other hand, the customer would not be visiting the dealership as often and may lose customer loyalty.

I'm sure, on the other-other hand, there would be Bubbas that would go 10K miles between chages even though they didn't use the synthetic oil last time...

Austin

[GeneF]

Thanks for the replies.

Very informative to an old codger that remembers when an oil change and lube was about $3.00.  But back then, you changed your oil every 1500 miles.

[robpoe]

A friend of mine was talked into having his oil changed at a tire shop.

He had special ordered a tire from the shop (I guess they don't stock Lamborghini tires).  In the back he had an oil filter and oil - the next stop was his mechanic to change the oil.

They (finally) convinced him that they could do the oil change.  

Later, when driving down the highway, his transmission shelled ..

The shop replaced the transmission (and clutch) to the tune of $21,000

When I worked as a lube tech / tire changer at Firestone, I saw one of the other "mechanic techs" in the parking lot revving a BMW 500 series car's engine .. because the oil guage wouldn't go up.  He'd forgotten the oil filter..

[naganthunter]

...I had a 01 Mitsu Montero that was a play time only car.  It had very low miles (I just sold it with < 40k miles.

Anyways, I took it there with 9k miles or so after it was a couple of years old.  The nimrod who took the car in (not the "tech" - I use that term loosely), entered 90k miles - oops....

...anyways, the "tech" came in and started rambling on about all of the "problems" that needed attention - radiator flush, transfer case flushes, etc, etc.  I looked at him and asked him if he thought I just fell off of the turnip truck when the car only had 9k miles?  He turned bright red, all he said was "oh" and went back out and finished the job   :screwy: ....and they didn't ask me to pay.

I filed a complaint with the BAR here in CA - not sure anything ever happened as I never heard from them.  I will NEVER go back there.  I would recommend that you don't either!!!

[wavery]

...I had a 01 Mitsu Montero that was a play time only car.  It had very low miles (I just sold it with < 40k miles.

Anyways, I took it there with 9k miles or so after it was a couple of years old.  The nimrod who took the car in (not the "tech" - I use that term loosely), entered 90k miles - oops....

...anyways, the "tech" came in and started rambling on about all of the "problems" that needed attention - radiator flush, transfer case flushes, etc, etc.  I looked at him and asked him if he thought I just fell off of the turnip truck when the car only had 9k miles?  He turned bright red, all he said was "oh" and went back out and finished the job   :screwy: ....and they didn't ask me to pay.

I filed a complaint with the BAR here in CA - not sure anything ever happened as I never heard from them.  I will NEVER go back there.  I would recommend that you don't either!!!

WELCOME TO PUT!!!

With all do respect. The types of services that you are describing are recommended purely on mileage. I don't think that the BAR would consider that a valid complaint unless they were recommending items that were not "Service" items. If they had said that you needed new ball joints, axle boots, tie rods, or something that required an actual hands-on physical inspection, that would be a different story. Service items may even be recommended over the phone, without the vehicle being present.

In this example, one guy made a clerical error, the other guy was doing his job and recommending high mileage service. In fact, these recommendations may have been computer generated. If the shop doesn't have any prior record of your vehicle, it is reasonable for them to make those recommendations based solely on mileage. It is up to the customer to accept the recommendation or to tell them that they had those things done at a different facility. To NOT recommend those services could be considered neglectful on a 90K mile car (as was noted on the repair order) IMHO.

Although, you would think that the guy might have noticed that the car looked pretty new and (maybe) should have double checked the odometer.

Just as a side note......I would recommend taking your new vehicle to the dealer for maintenance items, at least for the duration of the warranty. It may cost more but it is cheap insurance and that way, they have a computerized log of everything that has been done to your vehicle. Just my 2 cents :sombraro: . Although I do agree with your final statement but for very different reasons. :sombraro:

[naganthunter]

..my first post here and I'm already defending my position....eeegad!

Anyways, I'd agree with you wavery but for the fact that he went and placed fluid "samples" on white cardboard paper to show me how "bad" the fluids were, and how awful they smelled, etc...these were obviously from another vehicle.

Also, having worked with BAR professionally, I've seen them go after much less.

This had nothing to do with a clerical error.  It was an attempt to defraud the consumer, plain and simple.

Again...I would advise using caution when going to jiffy lube, or avoiding the place all together.

[wavery]

..my first post here and I'm already defending my position....eeegad!

Anyways, I'd agree with you wavery but for the fact that he went and placed fluid "samples" on white cardboard paper to show me how "bad" the fluids were, and how awful they smelled, etc...these were obviously from another vehicle.

Also, having worked with BAR professionally, I've seen them go after much less.

This had nothing to do with a clerical error.  It was an attempt to defraud the consumer, plain and simple.

Again...I would advise using caution when going to jiffy lube, or avoiding the place all together.

That makes a lot more sense. I just couldn't understand that they did anything wrong from your 1st post........now it makes sense. Thanks for the follow-up.

As I said before......."I do agree with your final statement" :sombraro:

[flyfisherman]

The GM dealer I use (where I bought the present vehice new) has a good reputation in these parts for good, honest service. Their oil change prices are competitive with all the other shops and when I pull the truck in they will tell me honestly what is due. For example, the oil change time (before the last one), the tech told me it was time  (really past due time) to replace the fuel filter. They did so and you could really tell the difference afterward!  Also, with little items, like the windshield wiper blades, the orginal parts pricing is competitive with the parts store (like Carquest or NAPA), plus they will put them on at no additional labor charges. So I would'nt consider taking the truck any other place, other than when on the road to a distant place and in that case I again seek out a GM dealer.


Fly

[robpoe]

Remembered another one..

When I worked @ Firestone we had a little old lady come in.  She was the stereotypical "little old granny" type.  

She was leaving for a road trip (about 80 miles) and wanted to get her oil changed before she left.  But her "regular" mechanic was out of town and wasn't able to do the service before he left.

So I changed this lady's oil.  Did the whole 21 point inspection (actually went so far as to completely go through and make sure her car was totally trustworthy (it was about 4 years or so old).  She came walking into the bay as I was finishing up, telling us how her mechanic had told her that there were a lot of things wrong with it, and how she was going to end up selling it to him (for some ridiculously low price) so he could fix it up because he'd told her there were a lot of problems with it.

She also INSISTED that we needed to "lube the boots" and adjust the exhaust slipnut.  We tried to inform this dear old lady that there was no such thing, but she was adamant that her mechanic did those things once a month, and charged her $60 to do so, and by golly we were going to look it up in our manual and do the same thing, too.

We made a show of looking it up, and came back with a half-cocked idea of what to do to "prove" to her that we'd done what her mechanic had done for her.  She said that he used some kind of spray on a rag and did something near the front wheels.  Said it was absolutely necessary to keep (my mind is fuzzy on what exactly he told her it protected) whatever protected.  So we sprayed some silicone on a rag and wiped the dust off of the CV boots (edit: she'd actually pointed out to us the dusty boots, said they had to be shiny, now that I think of it).  She insisted that we adjust the exhaust too, so we loosened (and made a show of adjusting) the exhaust to placate her.  

By then I was so mad that some jerk was ripping this nice old lady off, but she sensed that when I asked his name and she wouldn't give it to us.

She actually got really upset with us when we refused to charge her for these "extra service procedures" that were vital to the running of her car.  The last I ever saw of her, was with the general store manager, out in the parking lot, trying to get her to not be ripped off - but her mechanic was "a nice man who had a family to raise".

*sigh*