People before Parks?

[sacrawf]

Do you think that due to tight federal, state, and local government budgets, public Parks, Campgrounds, and Historic sites should be closed and the savings be used for social programs such as children's health insurance, education, drug and alcohol rehab, and job training?  This is a debate that has been going on in Illinois and may be coming to a park near you soon.

[beacher]

Historically, government social programs are initially funded and they kick off just fine.  In time, due primarily to poor management skills of government employees, the funds magically "dry up".

When this same type of mis-management spills over to public parks, they also tend to magically "dry up".  In California most public dump stations no longer work.  Most rest areas have been closed.  Many campsites that used to have water bibs are now dry.  And more campsite areas are being closed each season.

There's big money to be made though.  There are private companies taking over the management of public facilities.  Mega-Billions!!  And, interestingly, they manage to make and keep a profit.  And under their management , things don't magically dry up.  

However, public facilities, and government departments, that were initially funded and fully paid for by previous generations of taxpayers are now being privatized.  It's the new "Free Land Grab" opportunity of the 21st century.

Through direct lobbying effort, our Federal, State, and Local "Forest Rangers" are being transformed into Law Enforcement Agencies, instead of their previous role as forest managers.  There is private entrepreneurial money to be had in LEO training, and equipment contracts.

[brainpause]

I didn't have time to read the above posts, but here is my answer to the question:

We wouldn't have to rob other programs if people would get out and work and not depend on government programs.

There are government programs that are needed to help some, but they could be razored to a fraction of their size/cost if we would just make people earn their living.

"If a man shall not work, neither shall he eat."

Larry

[whitestar505]

I did not vote because of the wording of the questions. Parks are for people..
People go to them to get rid of the stress and try to enjoy life... I think you need to rethink this poll out.
 
ws505
 

Do you think that due to tight federal, state, and local government budgets, public Parks, Campgrounds, and Historic sites should be closed and the savings be used for social programs such as children's health insurance, education, drug and alcohol rehab, and job training? This is a debate that has been going on in Illinois and may be coming to a park near you soon.

[sacrawf]

I did not vote because of the wording of the questions. Parks are for people..
People go to them to get rid of the stress and try to enjoy life... I think you need to rethink this poll out.
 
ws505

These are not my words..."People before Parks" is a slogan of those who in Illinois want increased funding for their desired projects rather than to reopen the state parks and historic sites that have been closed by (Dem) Governor Rod Blagojevich.  .Sen. Dale Righter, R-Mattoon, said lawmakers shouldn

[whitestar505]

How do you stand on this argument ?
 
ws
 

These are not my words..."People before Parks" is a slogan of those who in Illinois want increased funding for their desired projects rather than to reopen the state parks and historic sites that have been closed by (Dem) Governor Rod Blagojevich. .Sen. Dale Righter, R-Mattoon, said lawmakers shouldn

[AZsix]

Here in AZ SP's have an entrance fee. You can also buy annual passes that are good at all the SP's. They are also staffed by volunteers along with the park rangers. I don't know if the fees alone are enough to meet the parks costs. It would be nice if there were unlimited funds to put toward the parks but we all know that this isn't the case and never will be. We need to conserve our parks and wilderness areas for all to enjoy for generations to come. The fact is that there are social services that are needed and the money needs to come from somewhere. Hmmmm....... all those billions we are spending in Iraq every month sure would come in handy about now.

[AustinBoston]

20 years ago in Minnesota (long before I lived here), there was a ballot question to ammend the state constitution to allow a state lottery.  Part of the money was supposed to go to the environment.  I don't know officially, but some I've talked to say the DNR never saw a penny.

So this election, Minnesotan's actually voted to ammend the state constitution for a tax increase.  (Don't ask me, I don't understand why people would ever do that.)  Part of the proceeds are supposed to fund the environment.  Guess what will really happen...

A society without art, recreation, and nature has no soul.  Those are among the things that make life worth living.

Austin

[AZsix]

20 years ago in Minnesota (long before I lived here), there was a ballot question to ammend the state constitution to allow a state lottery.  Part of the money was supposed to go to the environment.  I don't know officially, but some I've talked to say the DNR never saw a penny.

So this election, Minnesotan's actually voted to ammend the state constitution for a tax increase.  (Don't ask me, I don't understand why people would ever do that.)  Part of the proceeds are supposed to fund the environment.  Guess what will really happen...

A society without art, recreation, and nature has no soul.  Those are among the things that make life worth living.

Austin

Maybe they will surprise you this time and actually put some of the money toward  the environment.

I get really worried about the state of national and state parks in the future. As the population explodes wilderness land is disappearing much too quickly for my liking. It seems as the days of the local fishing or swimming hole is quickly fading. Then there are those that go to these spots and leave their trash laying around or take natural artifacts with them leaving less and less for future visitors to enjoy. I can't tell you how much I hate going to and natural scenic wonder or historical spot and seeing peoples names spray painted on the rocks. I always point it out to my kids asking why would someone that comes to enjoy nature leave it a mess for the next visitors.

Hopefully we can teach our children to respect and preserve nature so that their children can enjoy the things that they enjoy today.

[sacrawf]

The State of Arkansas implemented a 1/8 of one percent state sales tax for the specific stated purpose:
 
The people of the State of Arkansas find that fish, wildlife, parks, tourism and natural heritage constitute a major economic and natural resource of the state and they desire to provide additional funds to the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission, the Department of Parks and Tourism, the Department of Heritage and Keep Arkansas Beautiful.

Because their law spefically states how much goes to each of these funds in which percentage, they can't be misappropriated into a general fund by legislators.  Arkansas State Parks and historic sites are well maintained, very well promoted, and there is no talk of closing these facilities. (I just spent eight great days last month camping in Arkansas.)

It appears that the National Forest Service is considering increasing fees and/or closing some campgrounds and historic sites in Colorado: http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20080728/NEWS/397851221/1078/RECREATION&parentprofile=-1    Is anyone familiar with the status of these changes?

20 years ago in Minnesota (long before I lived here), there was a ballot question to ammend the state constitution to allow a state lottery.  Part of the money was supposed to go to the environment.  I don't know officially, but some I've talked to say the DNR never saw a penny.

So this election, Minnesotan's actually voted to ammend the state constitution for a tax increase.  (Don't ask me, I don't understand why people would ever do that.)  Part of the proceeds are supposed to fund the environment.  Guess what will really happen...

A society without art, recreation, and nature has no soul.  Those are among the things that make life worth living.

Austin

[AustinBoston]

Because their law spefically states how much goes to each of these funds in which percentage, they can't be misappropriated into a general fund by legislators.

You should have said they can't legally be misappropriated.  The Minnesota state lottery question spelled out, not just in law, but in the state constitution, where the money was to go.  

It was never legal for the congress to divert social security funds, but guess what...how do you think we paid for the Vietnam War (economically many times more expensive than Iraq), the War on Poverty, and much of the interstate highway system at the same time without running up huge deficits?  Hint: In 1963, the Social Security Retirement fund was the largest accumulation of cash in the world.

Austin

[CajunCamper]

The State of Arkansas implemented a 1/8 of one percent state sales tax for the specific stated purpose:
 
The people of the State of Arkansas find that fish, wildlife, parks, tourism and natural heritage constitute a major economic and natural resource of the state and they desire to provide additional funds to the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission, the Department of Parks and Tourism, the Department of Heritage and Keep Arkansas Beautiful.

I have camped in Arkansas on numerous occasions and I have to say they do a wonderful job with their state parks. Arkansas is a beautiful state. They also have one of the best websites I've seen promoting tourism to their state. Check it out a //www.arkansas.com

CajunCamper