Coleman/Fleetwood Dealer Frustration

[magnmike]

Had to share this story.  We own a used 2001 Coleman Bayside Elite that we bought off of Craig's list last spring.  We have had a great time enjoying our "new" camper. Today we decided to visit the local Fleetwood Dealer (Suncoast RV in Birmingham).  This is a new dealer as well.

I went for 2 reasons:
1) To look at some of the newer models (particularly the high side pop-ups) just to get an idea of the differences that I have seen on the websites
2)  To speak to the service department about routine maintenance costs, etc.
3)  To look at hybrids

We're not interested in buying or changing anything, just simply looking.

The service department seemed to be okay.  (Maybe a bit expensive, but helpful).

Sales were pitiful.  They only had 3 popups to look at.  All were the entry level small bare bone models.  Nothing wrong with those models, we were just suprised they didn't have any of the newer top of the line models.  After finding only the three ourselves on the lot, we tried to find a salesman.  When we did find him, we asked if they would be getting any of the newer popups in soon.  He said that he doubted they would be getting any other popups after they sold those three.  He further stated that he tries to talk anyone who comes in looking for a popup into a camper instead.  He asked me why someone would want to spend the money on a popup when they can buy a travel trailer camper for the same price.

This suprised me on several levels.  First of all, I was a customer asking about a popup, not a travel trailer.  Also with the new push back to the Coleman branding, I expected they would be pushing/introducing those at the official Coleman/Fleetwood dealer.   Some of the travel trailers I saw were not of very good quality compared to my used popup.  Also, I would imagine there is still an entry level market for persons looking for towing options, gas mileage, more sleeping space, etc.

Not only were there not much in the poup inventory, there were also no hybrids.

Sorry for the long rant, but the guy really made me frustrated.  Makes you wonder about the service department if their sales are that down on popups.  I wonder if this is just a bad dealer or more what is going on everywhere?

If popups "cost" so much more, wouldn't a salesman be wanting to sell?

[AZsix]

It could be that previous sales history has shown them that pup's aren't their "bread and butter" or it could be that they have made the decision for whatever reason to focus mainly on tt's. With all the downsizing campers have done it could be that they aren't forward thinking trying to fill a niche for those that want to downsize. I have stated before when I first found this board that I used to have sales people tell me all the time that popups where a great way to "get started" in camping. It's a shame that more dealers don't realize that many of us prefer pup's. Maybe dealers should read this forum to fully understand what a great way of life pup camping is and how passionate many of us are about them. I'm lucky where I live to have a dealer that seems to really push pop ups. They have a huge inventory and many on display in their indoor "forest" showroom.

I guess in these tough times for sales dealers are making decisions. Some of them may be right but you can't bet a bunch of them are going to be the wrong ones.

[Used 2B PopUPTimes]

What happened to you is common and has been one of the greatest challenges for pop up mfrs. In years where all other rv sales set records, pop up sales have been on the decline, mostly because the dealer sales people aren't committed to selling them. They require more effort to set up and the sales commissions are lower.

I think (hope) we'll see that turn around in the spring. This past summer's $4 per gallon gas knocked the heck out truck, SUV, RV & boat sales and had families scrambling for more economical modes of tranportation and ways to have fun outside.  With RV makers and dealers are dropping like flies and I think those that survive this change in our economy will be committed to smaller campers.

We're getting an unusual number of new subscribers for this time of year which tells me that people are looking at pop ups a lot more seriously now.

D.

[mike4947]

5 years ago we had a total of 15 RV dealers that sold PU's in the area. Today there are 5; and one or two come spring may not stock any more.
PU's are considered "starter RV's, and have a lower markup than even small travel trailers due to the more complex assembly and more parts.

[sacrawf]

I experienced the same attitude at several dealers when first shopping for a popup.  My guess is reasons may include:

Many potential popup shoppers may be shopping for an item that they may not be able to afford or get approved for credit for, wasting the sales staff's time.

Many potential popup shoppers may not already have a capable tow vehicle so the sales staff doesn't see a warm prospect for a sale.

Popups by their very nature are more delicate than HTT and require more maintainance, as they have lift mechanism, canvas, door storage, external AC cord, fold-up sink/stove, etc., that are not on a HTT.  They are also more prone to new owner's accidents in setting up, like cranking up too high, leaving a roof latched, or driving off with the crank not stowed. This will potentially mean more service, instruction time, dissatisfied customers, bad publicity, and lower probability of return sales.

A dealer I spoke to for Coleman/Fleetwood buys a "truckload" of popups at once and will not order any more until all have been sold.  That will result in a couple of two or three year model year old models still setting on the display lot, being offered without discount, still priced at new model year pricing while rust is starting on the wheels and frame. The dealer then complains about there being no market for popups.

Popups are great campers because you can order one to your liking. It would be hard for a dealer to spec a camper to keep on the showroom floor or sales lot that will meet the needs of each potential customer.  High or low-wall?  Furnace or not?  AC or without?  Refrigerator or Icebox?  Screen room and RVQue or no?
Brakes or no brakes?  Storage compartment or no storage compartment?  One or two LP tanks?  Toyhauler deck?  Flagstaff or Rockwood?  Which floorplan of the 27 available?

When a sale is made, hitch attachment, brake controller installation, and trailer wiring is often included in the sale price. However, it is much more involved on many vehicles used for towing popups like minivans and crossover SUV's than the larger tow vehicles that HTT buyers will bring to the dealership, which are more likely  to have factory hitches, wiring packages, and brake controller wiring.

Due to the popup's nature, they are less secure for weather damage, intrusion or vandalism on the dealer lot if set up, and more time consuming to demonstrate if left popped down.

Sales process for a popup takes just as long or longer to sell, but lower profit for the same work.

I suspect that more potential popup buyers will shop for new but then buy used than will those shopping for other types of RV's.  

Taking trade-ins for upgrades of popups may be more risky for the dealer than other RV's as there is a substantial possibility for hidden damage (as evidenced by several of the threads I have read here for the last three years).

[tlhdoc]

I experienced the same attitude at several dealers when first shopping for a popup. My guess is reasons may include:
 
Many potential popup shoppers may be shopping for an item that they may not be able to afford or get approved for credit for, wasting the sales staff's time.
 
Many potential popup shoppers may not already have a capable tow vehicle so the sales staff doesn't see a warm prospect for a sale.

Why do you think many potential popup shoppers won't be able to afford a PU?  PUs can cost much less than a TT.  Again why do you think someone shopping for a TT will have a capable tow vehicle, versus someone shopping for a TT?  An educated shopper will know what type of vehicle they need to safely tow.  Be it a PU or a TT.  You also don't need a large TV to tow a PU.  Many are towed with minivans, crossover vehicles and other smaller vehicles.  All of these vehicles are very common vehicles.

[The Tree Top Inn II]

Y'all owe it to yourself to make the long drive over to Atlanta metropolitan area and see the Adams family at PECO Campers in Stone Mountain area.  Their top product has been for decades and still is Coleman/Fleetwood campers.  They have a large indoor, air conditioned, sales area with every model of pop up set up and the side canvas on one side removed so you can clearly see the interiors if you don't want to step up in them.  I continue to be more than pleased with their sales, service, and just general can-do attitude.  I promise you won't be sorry if you make a full day of it to drive to Atlanta. I even store my camper there even though it's a 37 mile drive from my home.

Had to share this story. We own a used 2001 Coleman Bayside Elite that we bought off of Craig's list last spring. We have had a great time enjoying our "new" camper. Today we decided to visit the local Fleetwood Dealer (Suncoast RV in Birmingham). This is a new dealer as well.
 
I went for 2 reasons:
1) To look at some of the newer models (particularly the high side pop-ups) just to get an idea of the differences that I have seen on the websites
2) To speak to the service department about routine maintenance costs, etc.
3) To look at hybrids
 
We're not interested in buying or changing anything, just simply looking.
 
The service department seemed to be okay. (Maybe a bit expensive, but helpful).
 
Sales were pitiful. They only had 3 popups to look at. All were the entry level small bare bone models. Nothing wrong with those models, we were just suprised they didn't have any of the newer top of the line models. After finding only the three ourselves on the lot, we tried to find a salesman. When we did find him, we asked if they would be getting any of the newer popups in soon. He said that he doubted they would be getting any other popups after they sold those three. He further stated that he tries to talk anyone who comes in looking for a popup into a camper instead. He asked me why someone would want to spend the money on a popup when they can buy a travel trailer camper for the same price.
 
This suprised me on several levels. First of all, I was a customer asking about a popup, not a travel trailer. Also with the new push back to the Coleman branding, I expected they would be pushing/introducing those at the official Coleman/Fleetwood dealer. Some of the travel trailers I saw were not of very good quality compared to my used popup. Also, I would imagine there is still an entry level market for persons looking for towing options, gas mileage, more sleeping space, etc.
 
Not only were there not much in the poup inventory, there were also no hybrids.
 
Sorry for the long rant, but the guy really made me frustrated. Makes you wonder about the service department if their sales are that down on popups. I wonder if this is just a bad dealer or more what is going on everywhere?
 
If popups "cost" so much more, wouldn't a salesman be wanting to sell?

[magnmike]

Believe it or not, the couple we bought the pop-up from are in Atlanta and bought it new at PECO.  (I wasn't sure exactly where the dealer was located).  They had nothing but great things to say about them.  I wish it were closer to Birmingham as our local fleetwood dealer is not good.  I'm going to be in that area in a couple of weeks to attend a wedding.  May make a trip on over to PECO.

Thanks,
Mike

Y'all owe it to yourself to make the long drive over to Atlanta metropolitan area and see the Adams family at PECO Campers in Stone Mountain area.  Their top product has been for decades and still is Coleman/Fleetwood campers.  They have a large indoor, air conditioned, sales area with every model of pop up set up and the side canvas on one side removed so you can clearly see the interiors if you don't want to step up in them.  I continue to be more than pleased with their sales, service, and just general can-do attitude.  I promise you won't be sorry if you make a full day of it to drive to Atlanta. I even store my camper there even though it's a 37 mile drive from my home.

[sacrawf]

I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear.  I meant that because popups are in the lower price segment of the overall RV market, those taking up the salesperson's time are more likely not to be able to afford any RV at all.  Commissioned salespeople have families to feed and bills to pay, and better things to do than show popups to people who aren't going to qualify for financing for anything but perhaps a Wal-Mart tent.  Full timers shopping for a diesel pusher motorhome or someone considering trading their popup for a hybrid are probably more likely to be real hot prospects for closing a sale.

In regard to vehicles, I am certainly aware that you don't need a large TV to pull a popup, having used a Hyundai Santa Fe to pull my popup when I first bought it, and it did a great job.  But we are discussing why Coleman/Fleetwood (and other) dealers don't seem to want to focus on selling popups.  Many RV dealers include the TV wiring in the sale of a new towable without additional charge. It takes less than 15 minutes to install the brake controller and prepare a pickup or full size SUV with factory tow package for towing.  It took my dealer four hours to install the wiring and brake controller in my Hyundai Santa Fe. That four hours which would have usually been billed out at $60/hour shop labor makes sales of popups towed by minivans or crossovers less profitable.

No, you don't need a large TV to tow a popup.  But it is also impractical or unsafe to tow a standard sized popup behind a Ford Escape Hybrid, Toyota Celica, Kia Rio, Nissan Versa, Toyota Prius, Mazda Miata, BMW Z-4, or Chevrolet Cobalt.  Nevertheless, we still see a lot of questions on discussion groups about campers or boating about how much these type of vehicles can tow quite regularly.  If a shopper shows up at the RV dealership with a 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid as their only vehicle (not recommended for any towing by the manufacturer) looking for popups, the salesman will likely be wasting his or her time until they have acquired a more apropriate tow vehicle.  It is much less likely that someone will drive into a RV dealership lot looking for a fifth wheel or hardside trailer to tow behind their inappropriate vehicle and wasting the salesperson's time.

[tlhdoc]

I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear. I meant that because popups are in the lower price segment of the overall RV market, those taking up the salesperson's time are more likely not to be able to afford any RV at all.

I understood you the first time.  Why do you think that people shopping for a PU would be more likely to not be able to afford any RV?  You seem to be assuming that people only camp in a PU if they can't afford something else.  I could have a TT if I wanted one.  I could have a new PU if I wanted on.  I camp in my 10 year old PU, because I like it and I haven't found anything that I like better.  I also know many other PU campers that are the same way.  They like camping in a PU.  They like being able to open up all of the windows and have a great view, hearing the night sounds, lower cost storage, being able to keep their PU in their garage (in communities that don't allow trailers in sight), etc.

[sacrawf]

I as well choose to use a popup for the experience it provides rather than the price of purchase. That is surely not true for everyone, however.

A friend recently bought a new Hyundai Elantra although he could buy almost any car that he wanted with cash. Although many car shoppers choose Hyundai for their quality construction, America's best warranty, great gas mileage, and lower purchase price, I would suspect that more people who won't be able to afford any car financing at all walk into a Hyundai dealership to look at a new Accent or Elantra than into a Lexus, Hummer, Cadillac, or Bentley dealership to look at new cars. A credit challenged shopper who is realizes that the lowest new Lexus sticker price starts at $31,500 and a Hyundai Accent starts at $9,970 base sticker price is much more likely to end up wasting the Hyundai salesman's time than even walking into the Lexus dealership to begin with.  Likewise, a credit challenged person seeking a first RV is less likely to even seriously shop for a quarter million dollar motorhome or $70,000 fifth wheel if they don't have the means to buy than they are for a popup that is offered new starting for less than $5,000.

I understood you the first time.  Why do you think that people shopping for a PU would be more likely to not be able to afford any RV?  You seem to be assuming that people only camp in a PU if they can't afford something else.  I could have a TT if I wanted one.  I could have a new PU if I wanted on.  I camp in my 10 year old PU, because I like it and I haven't found anything that I like better.  I also know many other PU campers that are the same way.  They like camping in a PU.  They like being able to open up all of the windows and have a great view, hearing the night sounds, lower cost storage, being able to keep their PU in their garage (in communities that don't allow trailers in sight), etc.