Trailer brake/ turn lights malfunction?

[ScouterMom]

Need suggestions on what to look for to fix this problem.....

I have a 1973 Starcraft Starmaster 6 - bought very cheap & much (ab)used in 2006 (?) and been rebuilding it. Slowly.....

The original trailer light system was not working properly, so to make the camper "legal" to tow, I completely bypassed it and bought a packaged set of Running / turn signal lights & wiring, followed the package directions (easy) and installed them on the trailer frame.  These lights have worked fine for the past 4 yrs or so, pulling the camper behind my 1999 Chevy Astro.

Today I picked up the PUP from it's indoor/ garage storage, and  when I plugged in the lights - they aren't working properly - my son says it's like they are pulling too much current?  

Example - the running lights are ON when the van is running, but if I touch the van's brake, the camper's rear lights and side yellow running lights go OFF. When my foot comes off the brake pedal, the running lights all come back on.

The turn signals work - sort of - They are blinking OPPOSITE the van's lights - if the van right turn signal is lit, the campers turn signal is not, when the van's turn signal blinks OUT, the campers' right rear light turns ON - so they BLINK - but in opposition, not together!

they were working fine last fall - I haven't changed anything on the van or the camper.... so what could be causing this?  Any suggestions on what to look for to fix it? I can't drive it like this!?

Do you think the problem is in the van? or the camper?

thanks for your help!

[wavery]

Need suggestions on what to look for to fix this problem.....

I have a 1973 Starcraft Starmaster 6 - bought very cheap & much (ab)used in 2006 (?) and been rebuilding it. Slowly.....

The original trailer light system was not working properly, so to make the camper "legal" to tow, I completely bypassed it and bought a packaged set of Running / turn signal lights & wiring, followed the package directions (easy) and installed them on the trailer frame.  These lights have worked fine for the past 4 yrs or so, pulling the camper behind my 1999 Chevy Astro.

Today I picked up the PUP from it's indoor/ garage storage, and  when I plugged in the lights - they aren't working properly - my son says it's like they are pulling too much current?  

Example - the running lights are ON when the van is running, but if I touch the van's brake, the camper's rear lights and side yellow running lights go OFF. When my foot comes off the brake pedal, the running lights all come back on.

The turn signals work - sort of - They are blinking OPPOSITE the van's lights - if the van right turn signal is lit, the campers turn signal is not, when the van's turn signal blinks OUT, the campers' right rear light turns ON - so they BLINK - but in opposition, not together!

they were working fine last fall - I haven't changed anything on the van or the camper.... so what could be causing this?  Any suggestions on what to look for to fix it? I can't drive it like this!?

Do you think the problem is in the van? or the camper?

thanks for your help!

You have a bad ground. Probably, on either the trailer to TV hook-up or the TV trailer harness but it's definitely a bad ground.

You should have a ground connection through the trailer wiring harness. I would start there. Probably just a loose connection.

I recommend soldering the stripped end of every wire that is used in the trailer connectors. That saves a multitude of problems like that. It just takes a few minutes and will surely save a lot of future frustration.

[ScouterMom]

I KNEW someone here would have an answer - and quickly too!  

That makes lots of sense.

The wires were placed inside the hollows of the metal frame and zip-tied in place, as it wasn't meant to be a 'permanent' solution - they might have worn or come loose and are touching the frame - the front corners were a bit tight.  the wiring harness, I think was attached with twist caps and secured with electrical tape - I'll check those two places first ! I also have my dad's soldering kit - that sounds like an excellent idea!  ( I'm a better rough carpenter than an electrician!)

all the original lights 'work' ( I cleaned and tested all of them - new bulbs, etc ) but I didn't have time to track all the internal wiring of the original system, & some were hanging/ dragging loose when I bought the camper - so I figured it would be wise to replace ALL of the 35 yr old wire and hadn't gotten around to that job yet.  The temp lights were a quick and effective solution to get the camper on the road, and I figured a few extra running lights couldn't hurt visibility, either, when I do get to re-wiring  the whole system.

Since I already have all the parts, but am currently unemployed, perhaps it will get done this spring/ summer?

Thanks again for your help, Wavery!

[wavery]

I KNEW someone here would have an answer - and quickly too!  

That makes lots of sense.

The wires were placed inside the hollows of the metal frame and zip-tied in place, as it wasn't meant to be a 'permanent' solution - they might have worn or come loose and are touching the frame - the front corners were a bit tight.  the wiring harness, I think was attached with twist caps and secured with electrical tape - I'll check those two places first ! I also have my dad's soldering kit - that sounds like an excellent idea!  ( I'm a better rough carpenter than an electrician!)

all the original lights 'work' ( I cleaned and tested all of them - new bulbs, etc ) but I didn't have time to track all the internal wiring of the original system, & some were hanging/ dragging loose when I bought the camper - so I figured it would be wise to replace ALL of the 35 yr old wire and hadn't gotten around to that job yet.  The temp lights were a quick and effective solution to get the camper on the road, and I figured a few extra running lights couldn't hurt visibility, either, when I do get to re-wiring  the whole system.

Since I already have all the parts, but am currently unemployed, perhaps it will get done this spring/ summer?

Thanks again for your help, Wavery!

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!:confused:

This statement, "they might have worn or come loose and are touching the frame" has me thinking, maybe you didn't understand my post.

What you are describing is "[COLOR="Red"]Hot[/COLOR]" (positive) wires that may be touching metal somewhere. That is called a "Short". A short will blow a fuse. It won't cause what you described.

Each bulb or lamp has a positive wire and a negative wire. A positive wire touching ground through a chafed wire will cause a short and blow a fuse. The negative wire MUST be secured to ground. If it is not, that is called and "Open Circuit" or "Bad ground".

The symptoms that you described is caused by an open circuit in a ground wire "Bad ground".

Now, read my 1st post again and go find that bad ground........:sombraro:

[ScouterMom]

think I got it.

I have a very simple set up -

two wires run the length of my trailer on the Drivers side, for the left rear taillight and the left side running light.  For some reason, these are solid yellow and brown/yellow stripe

A separate two lines run down the right (Passenger) side - solid green and green/brown stripe.  

I am not positive, but I seem to remember that the driver's side line was a bit longer and ran ACROSS the whole back to BOTH tail lights - but this would be up inside the '70's 'hump' of my camper rear wall and not visible with the camper folded up.

the only other wire coming out of the plug is a heavier gauge single WHITE wire, which runs to something that looks like a wirecap with a washer on the end. I'm assuming this is the ground wire. This is firmly screwed to the metal frame of the camper.

I have about 2-3 ft of wires, loosely braided and zip tied between the plug and where it is attached to the trailer tongue.  This gives me plenty of slack without any dragging or dangling.  Everything appears secure, nothing is pulled out.

All the wires are directly attached to the plug - no caps, tape, or connections.  Now that I look at the set-up, I remember having to measure the trailer frame to get the kit that had the appropriate length wires.  the only place I cut them was at the ends of the line - the tail lights.  the running lights are attached to the lines with short  wires drectly from the lights to those little snap connectors that hold the wire and cut thru the plastic wire casing to make contact.

All this leads me to think that the trailer is fine, and the bad ground must be in the van?

The van's trailer wiring was done by the shop that installed the trailer hitch in 2007, and I haven't touched it, other than to use the plug.  It also has plenty of 'slack' so nothing should have pulled loose as far as I can tell.  I have no idea how to trace wires there- but luckily, I have a great mechanic who can check it for me.

However, I'd like to be positive it's the van before I bother him to check it - so I'm going to ask a neighbor with a hitch to plug  the camper in and test the lights before I  have Herb check the Van's wiring.

[wavery]

More often than not, a bad ground is caused by a dirty and/or corroded connection. This commonly occurs in the trailer harness plug (either trailer side or TV side). It can also occur in where either side attaches to the frame or the connector on the frame itself.

It is seldom detectable by merely looking at the connection but can often be corrected by cleaning and/or tightening each connection.

This sort of open circuit can be found with an ohm meter or even a test light.

[Crowbar4]

You're not listening to Wavery! I am a mechanic and have seen this exact problem many times.  It is a bad ground on the trailer side.  The reason your lights work opposite the truck is because the ground is being completed through the second filament in the 1157 style light bulb. When you energize the brakes or turn signals your ground goes away and you have no lights.  The problem therefore is definatly on the TRAILER.  Refer to Wavery's first post.

[ScouterMom]

I appreciate your patience with me - this is why electrical stuff gives me headaches :eyecrazy:  I can't 'visualize' it.  I'm much better with dimensional stuff - like a hole in the canvas, broken hardware, or rotted wood .

I checked where the wire was screwed to the frame - it's as tight as can be.  nothing is corroded/dirty that I can see - I had scraped/ brushed rust off the frame when I got the camper, prepped to re-paint it. (the whole tongue, jack and winch were bent, mangled and rusty) the lighting wires were attached and then I painted - there's paint ON some of the plastic coating of the wires - but that doesn't affect the wire itself.  

Could it be the plug itself? or inside the plug? all of that is as it was from the factory/ kit - self contained and sealed - no 'do-it-yourself' connections.  however, I could / will clean the actual metal plug tips if that will help.

[wavery]

I appreciate your patience with me - this is why electrical stuff gives me headaches :eyecrazy:  I can't 'visualize' it.  I'm much better with dimensional stuff - like a hole in the canvas, broken hardware, or rotted wood .

I checked where the wire was screwed to the frame - it's as tight as can be.  nothing is corroded/dirty that I can see - I had scraped/ brushed rust off the frame when I got the camper, prepped to re-paint it. (the whole tongue, jack and winch were bent, mangled and rusty) the lighting wires were attached and then I painted - there's paint ON some of the plastic coating of the wires - but that doesn't affect the wire itself.  

Could it be the plug itself? or inside the plug? all of that is as it was from the factory/ kit - self contained and sealed - no 'do-it-yourself' connections.  however, I could / will clean the actual metal plug tips if that will help.

It ~could be the actual metal plug tips and it could be the connection inside the plug, either on the trailer side or the TV side.

There is a ground wire that goes from ground on the TV to ground on the trailer. That ground wire has to make contact at the TV frame, TV connector (female side of trailer plug), the male side of the trailer plug and the trailer frame. 95% certain that your problem in is one of those 4 places. If your trailer harness is a sealed cable, I would start by taking an ohmmeter to the pin on the female trailer plug on the TV and the other connector on the TV frame to see if you have an open circuit. Then do the same on the trailer. This will tell you if the open circuit is on the TV side or the trailer side. Remember, just because the plug is sealed, doesn't mean that it can't fail.

If you have a multimeter, set it on the "Ohm" setting, touch the leads together and see what the reading is. When you touch one lead to the ground pin on the trailer plug and one lead on a clean bare spot on the frame, you should get that same reading.

If you don't have a multimeter, you can get one at HarborFreight for $3.

[ScouterMom]

Thanks Waverly -

 a neighbor of mine has a meter and we did just what you said - it's somewhere inside the ground line/plug on the camper side.  So we ran a secondary wire from the TV to the camper to replace the ground wire, and later this summer, he will help me re-wire the original lights in the camper.  He's worked with trailers (and many demolition derby cars! lol!) so he's taken lots of systems apart and put them back together.

unfortunately, even though we fixed the problem - my first trip of the year was a bust!

We only got about 45 min from home, stopped for gas and a burger, and when we got back on the road, the battery light came on in my old van.  The lights were dimming, so we turned around to head back home, but the power gave out on the way. Had to leave the van and camper on the side of the road - to be towed the next morning.

My mechanic says it sounds like the alternator went.:mad:

So now we're back in camp driveway, with no tow vehicle until he can fix it.

Laura

[wavery]

unfortunately, even though we fixed the problem - my first trip of the year was a bust!

We only got about 45 min from home, stopped for gas and a burger, and when we got back on the road, the battery light came on in my old van.  The lights were dimming, so we turned around to head back home, but the power gave out on the way. Had to leave the van and camper on the side of the road - to be towed the next morning.

My mechanic says it sounds like the alternator went.:mad:

So now we're back in camp driveway, with no tow vehicle until he can fix it.

Laura

What a bummer!!!!!!!:(

Sorry that your trip was ruined........

[waterdoctor]

Hi Laura
Bummer about your trip going bust. I had that same type of thing happen a couple of years ago, right after I got my PUP. I was still very much a newby. I was towing with a project pickup my son and I had been working on. We left in 110+ temps and I had the 3-way fridge running on 12V to keep it cool on the way to the CG. We didn't stop or anything, but about 45 min out from home and the truck started to act up. The engine finally quit and I couldn't get it started. So there I am, on the side of the road, in sweltering heat, DW had long since just about melted away, trying to figure out what was going on. Fortunately, I had a voltmeter with me and on a whim, checked my battery voltage. It was down to about 10V. :confused: So now I have to fall back on my troubleshooting skills, such as they are. It dawned on me that I was running the fridge on 12V and perhaps the alternator just wasn't keeping up with the draw for the fridge and the needs for the engine. Sure enough, I shutoff the fridge, got a passerby to stop and give me a jump, and we were off once again. We proceeded on to the CG and had a great rest of trip.

In my case, it was old Ford technology (50 amp alternator) that was at the root of the problem. I needed more output from the alternator, but couldn't easily install a higher output alternator to work in my truck without a lot of modifications to the mounts and brackets.

Anyway, I'm rambling. I guess my point is to check what the alternator is rated to output. If you can get a larger output alternator (assuming that's the problem) then it's a pretty easy fix. Of course, it could be that your existing alternator did actually fail. But, those little fridges do draw alot of power when they're running on 12V.

Good luck getting it resolved.

[4Campers]

Well after four years of my lights working fine, this past trip the lights would not work correctly. Most of the problem occured in the four prong plugs that connect the pup to the TV. Corrosion build up inside the plugs prevented proper connection. A bit of cleaning with some WD-40 and a wire brush got us on the road, for now. New plugs are scheduled to be done soon.