RE: State traffic laws for pulling a PU

[Tim5055]

 mikewilley
Sorry popupcop, my statement is correct.  It s in the basic constitutional law class.  Under the commerce clause of the US Constitution one state can not pass a law that affects interstate commerce (yse, when I tow my trailer on vacation I am in interstate commerce).  They can only pass such a law if they can show that they have a compelling state interest that would override the national interest of free travel.
 
 One of the prime examples of this is the double bottom tractor trailer (i.e. 1 tractor towing 2 freight trailers).  For many years many individual states had laws prohibiting these trailers.  In KASSEL v. CONSOLIDATED FREIGHTWAYS CORP., 450 U.S. 662 (1981), the Supreme Court struck down an Iowa statute barring these trailers.  The case is interesting, in part, because the decision rests upon a District Court Judge s findings that the Iowa legislature erred in concluding that these trucks presented a safety risk. In affirming the District Court s action, the Supreme Court noted that Indeed, " if safety justifications are not illusory, the Court will not second-guess legislative judgment about their importance in comparison with related burdens on interstate commerce."  
 
 There has to be a concrete safety reason for a state to pass a law like this and they have to be able to prove it.
 
 Now another point in this thought process is weather a federal law is applicaple.  Take vehicle equipment.  All motor vehicles are built under to exceed minimum federal safety standards.  As long as a vehicle is built to these minimum standards and it meets the minimum standards of its state of registration, no other state can require a higher standard when you are traveling through that state.  Take California, they have very strict emmisions standards which no other state has adopted.  Just because my car does not meet California emmisions standards does not allow a California officer to ticket me when I am driving in Nappa Valley.  No I don t.  I meet the federal threshold and my state of registration requirements, so I m covered.
 
 You see, while I think all of the items AustinBoston listed are important, I don t think someone needs to add brakes to their trailer to go on vacation.
 
 IN many cases the states are beginning to get together and " normalize"  their statutesso there are not huge differences between the states.  But it is a slow painful process.
 
 Obviously taking legal advice from someone over the internet is risky, so consult your own legal advisor for specific questions relating to an individual situation.

[wynot]

 mikewilley
South Carolina also does not require tags on trailers or new cars (they use a dealer  tag  which has the name of the dealership on it).  At least they didn t when we were living there.
 
 However, if you leave SC, you are expected to have a plated vehicle.

[AustinBoston]

 tim5055

ORIGINAL:  tim5055
  (yse, when I tow my trailer on vacation I am in interstate commerce).
 

 You may be, but the vast majority of those on vacation are not involved in interstate commerce.  What commercial pupose are you travelling for?  Spending money in another state is not interstate commerce.  I doubt buying souveniers in another state and bringing them back to your state would count either.  One look at the sales tax on the receipt would clear that up.  For commerce to be " interstate,"  the transaction must cross state lines.  If you buy souveniers, food, meals, admissions, campground fees, etc. in another state, the entire transaction is in that state.
 
 Reciprocity is universal on passenger vehicles, but not necessarily so with trailers.  Even if it were, there are a lot of cops out there who would at least have to look it up, and probably some who would have to refer to a supervisor.  Many would write the ticket up regardless, knowing that you aren t going to come back to fight it.  Even if you would win in court, would you bother?  It s better to not get stopped in the first place.
 
 BTW, why do you think there are so many lists of state towing laws?  If reciprocity could be relied apon, then all I would need to know was my own state s rules, which are readily available to me.  The lists exist because people travel through multiple states and need to know what to expect.
 
 Austin

[SactoCampers]

 tim5055

Take California, they have very strict emmisions standards which no other state has adopted.

 Vermont, Maine, New York, and Massachusetts have all adopted California emissions.
 
 Other states can choose to adopt California s or the federal standards, but are not allowed to create their own.

[Jeffrey]

 mikewilley
If I didn t know better and read this.
 
 I d forget about traveling between states, sell my PU, and hide under my bed.[&:]
 

[whippetwrun]

 Jeffrey

 

ORIGINAL:  Jeffrey
 
 If I didn t know better and read this.
 
 I d forget about traveling between states, sell my PU, and hide under my bed.[&:]
 
 

 the heck with hiding! let s just form ourselves a convoy![8D]

[tlhdoc]

 mikewilley
We pull the PU through several states several times a year.  Boy am I glad I don t stress out easly.  I would be afraid to tow out of PA.[]

[Tim5055]

 AustinBoston

ORIGINAL:  AustinBoston
 You may be, but the vast majority of those on vacation are not involved in interstate commerce.  What commercial purpose are you traveling for?  Spending money in another state is not interstate commerce.  

 Yes, taking my money from Maryland and buying lunch in Virginia is interstate commerce.  Not because I carried money, or because I spent money, but because I crossed state lines.
 
 While I doubt the framers of the constitution had this in mind, the courts have consistently ruled to expand what constitutes interstate commerce.
 
 Austin,
 
 You are interpreting the word commerce narrowly to mean " business"  while the courts are expanding the definition to include almost anything that crosses state lines.
 
 In 1995 the Supreme Court defined commerce under the commerce clause in " United States v. Lopez" .
 
 In it they identified three broad categories of activity subject to congressional regulation under the Commerce Clause: (1) " the use of the channels of interstate commerce" ; (2) " the instrumentalities of interstate commerce, or persons or things in interstate commerce, even though the threat may come only from intrastate activities"  ; and (3) activities that " substantially affect interstate commerce."  
 
 The first two categories (which include our travel state to state) are fairly straightforward: Congress may regulate commercial channels, such as highways, waterways, and air traffic; it may also regulate and protect instrumentalities within such channels, such as people, machines, and vehicles.  The third category, as the Court readily admitted, is more nebulous.  
 
 But, I do admit when you discuss issues such as this you are talking about issues which can only be cleared up in an appellate court.  If you are from a state that has an anomalous law (like Mass. which only requires brakes above 10,000 lbs) be prepared to prove to anyone who asks that your trailer meets all laws applicable in your home state of registration.  You may even want to carry a copy of your home state motor vehicle laws.
 
 Plus, attitude is everything - If you are stopped talk to the officer/trooper/deputy nicely!

[popupcop]

 mikewilley
I give up.  I am just a dumb old cop that never had any legal education past graduate college level.[]

[jackgoesthepopup]

 mikewilley
Lets put it this way. Make sure your trailer and TV are set up for all the safty laws for your state. And obey the speed limits and you should have no problems.  If you let all this worry you to much you we need a vaction from your vaction.
 
 HAVE FUN

[Gone-Camping]

 mikewilley
Reciprocating laws do indeed have their limits. There are some states that allow you to two 2 trailers at the same time, try doing that in Virginia! I don t care what state tags you ve got on your 2 trailers, you re not going to get any further with them than the officer or trooper that stopped you...period!

[Tim5055]

 Gone-Camping

ORIGINAL:  Gone-Camping
 
 Reciprocating laws do indeed have their limits. There are some states that allow you to two 2 trailers at the same time, try doing that in Virginia! I don t care what state tags you ve got on your 2 trailers, you re not going to get any further with them than the officer or trooper that stopped you...period!
 

 Cliff, thats what the cops said over double bottom commercial trailers until the Supreme Court threw out the laws.  But as I said before, the details I am talking about are appelate court issues - that means you have already received a ticket[&:]
 

[raven339]

 whippetwrun
This is an interesting discussion...But it appears to me that it s being argued on two different levels.
 
 Tim, on a legal level, and everyone else on the practical side.  Tim appears to have done his homework, and with enough financial resources, after you get your ticket, you would probably win your case.
 
 Then there is the practical side...Is it worth it?...[: (][: (][: (]
 
 I like your arguments though Tim!!![8D][8D][8D]
 
 Skol...

[whitestar505]

 tim5055
Tim5055,
 

As long as a vehicle is built to these minimum standards and it meets the minimum standards of its state of registration, no other state can require a higher standard when you are traveling through that state. Take California, they have very strict emmisions standards which no other state has adopted.

 You used the word state here I believed you should of said country.

[Jeffrey]

 whippetwrun
Oh! I think I understand now. It s not so scary after all![]
 So as long as you take vacations with you attorney then your O.K.
 Is that it?[&:] LOL[]