RE: Coleman Carmel advice needed

[copcarguy]

 Hey all!  We just got the new 2003.5 Coleman brochure and fell in love with the Carmel.  In fact, we liked it so much, this past Sunday we headed off to the local RV dealer to check it out...  We dragged along a few of our PUT friends and made a day of it so we could get opinions...  Anyway, to make a long story short as of right now they are offering us a LOT for our Taos as a trade in.  In fact, just a few hundred short of what we paid for it brand new almost two years ago.  My question is: how can you find out the dealer cost of a Coleman PU??  Is there a dealer holdback similar to purchasing a car??  When I am planning to purchase a car, truck, etc. I head to www.edmunds.com or something similar and figure out exactly what the dealer pays.  I then go to the dealer and say " How much do you want to make on this deal?"   I am feeling " unprepared"  with this Coleman Carmel deal because I do NOT know what the dealer pays...  He is supposed to call back Saturday with the amount he wants for the Carmel...  I have searched online and the going ASKING price around here is between $7500 - $8000.  I am not sure what they are going out the door for.  Any help would be greatly appreciated!  
 
 PS - we would like a furnace, hot water, & refrigerator... but NO cassette toilet.

[Tim5055]

 copcarguy
I have never seen a source for Coleman wholesale pricing.  FFT has a closed dealer network and keeps that invformation very close to the vest.
 
 The thing you have working for you right now is the fact that the entire RV market is soft right now.  If they have a Carmel on the lot I m sure they want to move it.
 
 
 Here is part of a recent article in RV Business news:
 
 

RV dealer inventories were larger, in dollar terms, at the end of the first quarter while their sales revenue declined, when compared with the first three months of 2002, according to consultant Spader Business Management.
 
 Profits also were down sharply during the first quarter at large RV dealerships, while midsize dealerships reported marginal profits and small dealers posted small losses during the first three months of this year, Spader also reported.
 
 Midsize dealers, which Spader defines as having $5 million to $10 million in annual sales, reported the largest new RV industry inventory expansion as of March 31. The average midsize dealer?s new RV unit inventory grew by 20.2% to $2,113,249 as of March 31, compared with $1,758,495 a year earlier, Spader reported.
 
 Meanwhile, midsize dealers? new RV sales revenue declined an average of 4.6% during the first three months of this year to $958,121, compared with $1,004,070 during the first quarter of 2002.
 
 The average midsize dealer posted a net profit of $2,918 during the first quarter, compared with a net loss of $1,124 incurred during the first three months of 2002.
 

 Good luck.

[copcarguy]

 copcarguy
Thanks tim5055...  the dealer we went to is big - over $16 million in inventory!  They have FIVE Carmels on the lot, some with new roofs, others with the old ABS roof.  Of course, I want one with the new roof.  [&:][8D]  I just would feel better prepared if I knew what the dealer paid.  I know they have to make money, but I would be 100% comfortable if I knew just HOW much money they were making.  []

[kathybrj]

 copcarguy
We learned that our dealer pays their salespeople commission ONLY [&:].
 
 When we were talking about getting the Utah, our salesguys wouldn t budge on the price. When we found a leftover 2001 at another dealer and the price was right, the sales manager at our dealer came down and matched the other dealership s price for a 2002.
 
 They tried the guilt thing on us- " your salesman isn t making anything on this deal- at all."  Neither my husband nor I really reponded to that. Having the lowest price possible was our main concern. We ve since referred new customers to our salesman and he s been great to us with warranty issues.
 
 I wonder if HOW the sales people are compensated affects the price you pay. I would think so, but I ve never been employeed in the sales industry, so I can only guess.

[mikewilley]

 kathybrj
It definately makes a difference, but maybe not the one you would think.  Sales commisions are paid, as a rule, on gross sales price, not margin.  The salesman s incentive is to move the unit at any price.  The salesman s percieved choice is:
 1 - Sell $10,000 unit at $5,000... company looses $3,000, I make $500
 2 - Don t sell the unit... company breaks even, I make $0
 
 The realities are not that simple, but that is why the salesmanager usually has to get involved when the discounts start getting beyond a pre-authorized negotiating range the salesman usally has.
 
 Of course, in reality the dealership looses money and opportunity cost for every day that that unit sits on the lot, so they want to move it too.
 
 Bottom line, if the salesman still treats you right, he probably made money on the deal.  Congradulations on not letting them guilt trip you into paying more than you needed to!

[tlhdoc]

 copcarguy
Rick my dealer had the Carmel priced at $6225 with an awning last month.  Add around $1400 for the furnace, refrig and hot water package (factory installed).  That is their price with out negotiating.  You want to get at least 25% off of the list price and some free stuff.

[copcarguy]

 copcarguy
OK all - here s the deal... we need your opinions.  We went to the dealer today to make the deal.  The salesman took us out to the " back lot"  to show us the Carmel with furnace, hot water, fridge, and NEW roof.  We looked for 20 minutes and couldn t find that stock number.  There was a Carmel with the options we wanted, but the old ABS roof.  We didn t want that one obviously.  We found another Carmel with new roof, everything else, AND Cassette Potty.  We really didn t want the potty.  The dealer says he ll eat it since the one we wanted " couldn t be found" ...  SO he offered us that one with the potty for the same price! Here s the breakdown:
 
 2003 Coleman Carmel
 WITH furnace, hot water, fridge,
 Decor Group,
 awning, and potty:                                     $7900.00
 
 trade in our 2001 Taos:                            - $3000.00
                                                              __________
                                                                 $4900.00
 add tax                                                  +     355.25
 transfer plates:                                       +      20.00
                                                              __________
 
 OUT THE DOOR PRICE:                            $5275.25
 
 We were going to buy it today, but I wanted some opinions here first.  Hope to hear from you guys!                                              
 
 
 
 

[kathybrj]

 copcarguy
Rick- did you price it at the Coleman website? I m coming up with $9885 withOUT the potty. BUT, that s adding in the decor package and the canopy.
 
 So 25% off would be in the $7400 range, correct? (I hate math..)
 
 Get them to throw in a screen room (better yet the AAR) and chairs too!

[copcarguy]

 copcarguy
Hey Kathy...  I came up with a $10,644.90 MSRP on the Coleman website.  If we follow Tracy s " -25% rule"  the salesman is right on the money.  Stephie & I are trying to get them to throw in all the stuff we d need to carry the two bikes...  You know what we went through at North Lake stuffing them inside the truck.[:@][:@]  It would be nice to have a bike rack since the channels are built-in on the new style roof.

[kathybrj]

 copcarguy
Rick-
 
 Oh definitely push for the bike stuff, then. They re in the ball park, so there should be some wiggle room on their end of the deal.
 
 Good luck and let us know!

[tlhdoc]

 copcarguy
Rick it sounds like a good deal.  I think you will like the cassette potty once you have it.  It is so nice to be able to camp where you want and not worry if you are too far from the bath room.  It is also nice to know your toilet is clean.  I agree that you should try and get them to throw in the stuff for a bike rack.  I hope you love your new PU.

[Red neff Barchetta]

 copcarguy
I second Tracy s comments.
 I also think you ll be glad you got the cassette toilet.  Great for the middle of the night.  Very clean & simple to empty and no splashing thankfully, lol!  I still wear disposable gloves though.  Just remember not to put any diaper wipes in there as they won t break down.

[whitestar505]

 copcarguy
copcarguy,
 
    You don t want the potty. You don t know what you are missing. Would not leave home with out it. It is very easy to use and to clean. []

[tlhdoc]

 copcarguy
Rick any update on the Carmel?

[copcarguy]

 copcarguy
I got up early this morning and headed up to the dealer...  I got them to throw in the Yakima Cross Bars, sand pads, and a new ball mount & ball.  We pick it up Saturday at 3:00pm.  I can t believe we did this!  It was a kinda spur of the moment thing.  I am also shocked that this was all Stephie s idea - usually I am the one to want a vehicle!  What a role-reversal for us...  Thanks to all for the advice.  It helped us a great deal in making our decision.