RE: Dangerous new 2003 Jayco

[Gone-Camping]

 PopupSgt
Swithcing them to electric shouldn t be that big of a deal, it s already equipped witht he necesary backing plates, the electics will mount right to it, add a couple of wires and it s done! As to whether they will do that is unlikely, their responsibility is limited to repair/replace the system as manufactured. And it s my understanding that it s Jayco themselves and not the dealer that equips all their trailers with surge brakes, which could turn into your achiles heal since they don t normally put electric brakes on their trailers (I do believe it s an optional item though).
 
 Surge brakes are not all that bad really, and I d be curious as to why they have failed twice. The hydraulic system is bascially the same thing you have in the car, with the exception of the tongue actuate s them instead of pressing a pedal with the foot. They are truely porportional too.
 
 I agree fully that you should not tow that trailer one single inch, and that they should send a roll-back to pick it up and haul it back to the dealer at THEIR expense, and I wouldn t back down on that point. It IS NOTSAFE to tow that thing in it s current condition....

[PopupSgt]

 PopupSgt

Now I tow a Coleman 12 foot box with a full size custom van and really don t need trailer brakes as it will haul to a stop just the same. I use the electric brakes just to save ware and tear on my TV but if they go out its not a real safety concern.

 I understand what you mean but with the camper at gvwr of 3200# & my TV being able to haul 5200# s I don t see the issue.  Possibly I could use a larger TV but when the brake system worked I didn t have to worry whether the RV would stop or not.  I still think with the weight of many large campers you should not have to worry with regards to the brake system working or not.  Which the brake system on the RV has failed twice & I ve only owned it for 1 month.

[PopupSgt]

 PopupSgt

And it s my understanding that it s Jayco themselves and not the dealer that equips all their trailers with surge brakes, which could turn into your achiles heal since they don t normally put electric brakes on their trailers (I do believe it s an optional item though).

 Actually electric brakes come std & surge brakes are an option,the particuliar dealer that I purchased mine from put s the surge brake option on his popups due to the ease of not having to install brake controller for new popup owners & according to them anyone can tow one w/o having to buy a controller.

[Tim5055]

 PopupSgt
Corey,
 
 Sorry to hear about your problems!  I hope they do right by you.
 
 I agree with you, being a full ton below the towing limits should keep you safe.  The recomendation I hear all the time is a trailer over 1500 lbs should have working brakes.

[mike4947]

 PopupSgt
First of all there s no question that the dealer ordered it that way. Jayco made electrics standard on 12 footers and the 14SO several years ago. I questioned this last year in an email to Jayco and they responded that they did indeed make electrics standard on their larger sized trailers and that surge would be a special order. Their website confirms this.
 
 As for the problem it should be shared between Jayco and the dealer. Jayco for the faulty installation of the lines and the dealer for failing to repair the second side when he first was found to be defective.
 As far as Dexter is concerned no blame should be associated with them as they supply the axle and brakes but not the hardware or actuator. The actuator is by Atwood and the hardware (lines) by Jayco.

[PopupSgt]

 PopupSgt
Mike,
 Thanks for clearing me up, I didn t know that Jayco installed the surge brake system at their factor I figured it came to them completely assembled from Dexter.  I know I won t have much recourse on a totaly brake system changeout but feels good to vent.  I have emailed Jayco & Ohio s Attorney General but who knows if anything at all will happen.  Thanks again for the advice.

[Jeffrey]

 PopupSgt
I can t imagine how scary that was, and I m glad nobody was hurt.
 
 But I would have to say, something else must be wrong. You need a TV that can stop your trailer without sending through an intersection. Because trailer brakes can and sometimes do fail, No matter what kind they are.
 
 Even electric brakes can fail - mine just recently did (5 yr old). And my Safari
 still could easily stop us without them. My trailer is not as heavy, but yours still needs to be able to stop you.
 IMO, Trailer brakes should be your extra safety cushion, and to help with wear and tear, but not a necessity to safely stop.
 
 I would get your trailer fixed whatever way you feel comfortable.
 And get your TV checked-out too! Because there has to be something else wrong?

[Welshie]

 PopupSgt
I just purchased a new Jayco UDST12 with electric brakes and Tekonsah Prodigy brake controller.   I joined this list before I purchased my Pop-up and at the time everyone was in favor of electric brakes over surge brakes.  When I went to order my Pop-up I was really discouraged by the dealer from ordering it with electric brakes.  Another sales person at a different Jayco dealer actually argued and got mad with me because I wanted electric brakes.  Almost all of the Jayco dealers order their pop-ups with the surge brakes which are an option.  I guess I am glad I listened to everyone on the list and insisted on the electric brakes!

[SheBantam]

 PopupSgt
Popupsgt,
 
 I feel your pain. I really really do. Last year, Raymond did not put the elecric plug in well and it came out, with me driving, I drug the cord for miles, it was really chewed up. I lost my breaks then I hit the hills around Reading PA. I tried to get into Eagle s Peak per Expedia directions. The road was closed. I had to traipse up and down roads like Texter Mountain Road with no brakes.  You cannot just u- turn with the Bantam B-21 in tow. I came home the same way, but I knew I had no trailer breaks and drove accordingly.
 
 This last spring, I was meeting a MAPCE group at Newport News County park, hit the Ft, Eustis exit and had no brakes and kept going, on the shoulder, past the exit. Terrible feeling.  This time it was my brand new Prodigy brake controller.  On the triip home, they would grab horribly. I posted and got a response to check my connections. That was all that was wrong with my brakes in that case. I jiggled the connections and all is now right with the world of Shebantam s brakes.
 
 I hope that all is right with the popupsgt s braking world soon.

[AustinBoston]

 PopupSgt
Wow!
 
 I do have some idea how you feel...when our trailer was new, I had an " Oh, my God...Oh, God, HELP ME!"  moment with sway (used all three lanes & the breakdown lane, and did $2,000 damage to the Astro s bumper).  I too wouldn t tow until the whole problem was fixed, not just the symptoms.
 
 Although I prefer electric brakes, I believe they are more likely to fail than hydraulic surge brakes.  This is the first time I have heard of a surge brake failure (not counting " inadequate performance" ).  There have been 4-5 times I ve heard of electric brake failures.  This could be because there are more electric brakes out there, but I don t think that s the issue.  The issue is the plug and the wires.  They corrode, they fall out, wires end up flexing and failing, junctions fail.  In addition, with extended use, the magnets wear to the point that they will short out.  It s important to keep any braking system in top condition, especially if your setup really relies on the trailer brakes.
 
 I have heard about inadequate braking with surge brakes, especially on long downhill grades.  I don t know if they fade quickly or if they just don t produce enough braking, but I ve heard several people complain about them on significant hills.
 
 The correct approach to trailer brakes includes three things:
 
 1) The tow vehicle has to have sufficient brakes for normal towing and some reserve for emergencies.  Notice that I m not saying it has to have the same amount of brakes as if the trailer brakes were working.  But should the trailer brakes fail, the TV has to be able to stop the trailer.
 
 One thing that many people overlook on TV brakes is the way most of them work.  Front brakes on passenger vehicles, SUV s, and pickups sold in the US and Canada adjust continuously.  But many of those vehicles do not have rear brakes that adjust continuously.  Those vehicles require the operator to do something else to adjust.  Two mechanisms that I have heard of are using the Emergency/Parking brake, and FIRM braking while backing up.  Find out how your rear brakes adjust, and make sure they are adjusted every time you hook up.  On their best day, the rear brakes only apply when braking hard, so you won t necessarily notice them missing until you are sliding through the intersection with a trailer attached!
 
 2) The trailer has to have adequate brakes.  Adequate depends on a number of things, including weight of the trailer, strength of the TV brakes, and the conditions you tow under.  A trailer towed by a 2500 that never leaves Florida doesn t have the same brake requirements as a trailer that s always being towed over the OMG Hill with an S-10.
 
 3) Driving adjustments.  You can t tow a trailer the way you drive a sports car.  You need longer following distances and you need to watch what s happening further down the road.  On the highway, the standard is a two second following distance.  If you re towing a trailer, that goes up to three.  If the trailer doesn t have brakes, it goes up to four.
 
 As you have found out, even with a " safe"  following distance, loss of trailer brakes turns an ordinary stop into an emergency, so the " three second"  rule requires both #1 and #2 to be up to par.  For more info on brakes, see Tim5055 s FAQ on [link=http://www.title-3.com/Brakes.htm]Pop-Up Brakes[/link].
 
 If I had survived your experience, I would insist on the surge brakes being changed out for electrics as well.
 
 Austin

[PopupSgt]

 PopupSgt
AustinBoston,
 Thanks for your inquiry and advice.  I don t think it would have been so bad but what happens with the surge brake system is the tongue on the camper as you know moves to apply the brake system.  Well when I was stopping the camper slides forward as it should but now there is no resistance & it s like gettting ram rodded from behind.  You feel yourself stopping then all of sudden you feel this great surge from behind due to the rv of course is sliding forward, it s almost like a sling shot effect.  
 I know that my TV can stop this camper due to I just did $175 worth of brake work & installed ceramic pads on the front end but it s different when your are stopping then you feel a hard slam from behind like someone is rear ending you & I think that is what caused the effect that happened to me at the intersection.

[Foxyladies]

 PopupSgt
Sorry to hear about your problems but if you get no response.......just call a Television Station......every company loves to be on the news.[][8D]

[PopupSgt]

 PopupSgt

.......just call a Television Station......every company loves to be on the news

 FoxyLadies,
 That s my next step if the dealership cannot come to a resolution.  The system broke once then I understood things break but happen twice to the same system then to me something is wrong[>:].

[Tim5055]

 PopupSgt
Well, I did a little searching on the [link=http://www.nhtsa.gov/]National Highway Safety Administration web page[/link].  There were no listings for brake component failures in the 2003 or 2002 model years, but this one in 2001.
 
 

Make:  JAYCO  
 Model:  JAYCO  
 Year:  2001  
 Complaint Number:  765595  
 Summary:  
 COMPLETE LOSS OF TRAILER BRAKES OCCURS FROM THIS BRAKE LINE RUPTURE. *AK  
 

 Make sure you [link=http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/]File a Complaint[/link] regarding this safety issue.

[AustinBoston]

 PopupSgt

 

ORIGINAL:  PopupSgt
 I don t think it would have been so bad but what happens with the surge brake system is the tongue on the camper as you know moves to apply the brake system.  Well when I was stopping the camper slides forward as it should but now there is no resistance & it s like gettting ram rodded from behind.  You feel yourself stopping then all of sudden you feel this great surge from behind due to the rv of course is sliding forward, it s almost like a sling shot effect.  
 I know that my TV can stop this camper due to I just did $175 worth of brake work & installed ceramic pads on the front end but it s different when your are stopping then you feel a hard slam from behind like someone is rear ending you & I think that is what caused the effect that happened to me at the intersection.
 

 I can easily see where that could make a bad situation a lot worse.  That is an effect I can easily visualize (and feel in my lower back how it would feel) now that you describe it.  Wow.
 
 Austin