PUT, Community and Stuff

[SkipP]

Seems like things got outta hand with the thread Bearbait started about "fluff". He brought up some valid points that need to be addressed. Not as an "Us" vs. "Them" issue, but one that can go forward. I hope this one can remain open and un-locked....  it's up to us, as adults, to make it so.

Like B-Flat said in a previous post, she want's to know when someone has problems or accomplishments (not her exact words, I'm too lazy to go back and look, but thats the jist of it anyway). Perfect, that's what communities do. They care for one another.

If it weren't for the PUT boards, how many of us here would have met..... became friends, camped together, learned about new recipies, bargains, and (most important to me....LOL) shared camper modifications? I can think of several people, fine people, who have made my life richer for having gotten to know them. Friendships that will last a lifetime. People that I wouldn't have ever met if not for this group. I can't begin to place a value on that investment...... it's priceless. The people that make up this group are priceless (okay, Road Runner charges almost $50/ month for access, so there is a price, LOL).

There is no rule that say's we all have to agree. That would suck. Ain't gonna happen anyway. We can disagree nicely though, and thats where I see us now. Our actions can make or break this board.... pretty much up to us. We need to be.... need to remain a community....yet remember our roots. It's what got us together. Can't think of a single person on this group that I wouldn't share a campfire with.

Hope I'm not alone with these thought's.....

[brainpause]

I agree with what you say.
 
And let's try and keep this thread civil. I'm gun-shy now, and will lock this thread much sooner than I did the last one if needed.
 
Larry

[ForestCreature]

Well said Skip, and no you aren't alone.  It's seems to me most times that the board being slow gets brought up it ends up with the same fight at the end, regardless of the reason the originating poster has cited and we have seen a few differing opinions as to why or why not.
 
 Threads like Bearbaits could be a constructive tool for the board if viewed in the right light. Taking stock in what is going on here is not such a horrible issue that should cause the anger that showed in that thread. The thread subject itself isn't what I saw as a threat to the boards health, it was how some of the replies turned nasty that turned me off. I saw no  direct personal attacks in the origional post of that thread, but sadly it some took it that way. And it certainally ended that way. Those kinds of attacks are what can do more damage to the board than a post about "fluffing".  Maybe the thread title was to harsh for some and that set things off in the wrong direction ?  Who knows :confused:
 
 The one thing I think we all can agree on is we have made some great friendships thru this board, I've camped with a few and have had great times. I hope to meet and camp with even more in the future. To me that is more important than the things I've learned about the camper. (being the token Aliner owner here, past the normal ele, water heater and fridge issues not many can help if i have an Aliner specific problem)
 
 Here's to seeing this thread keep going in a positive direction, as Skip has intended.........
 (where is the mug o' beer icon?)
 
 
 
 

[Camperroo]

can't have a good campfire without some goofy, fluff conversation...doesn't always have to be practical, just get a conversation going and let it take off.   At least it will get the board going and people visiting...otherwise it becomes boring and very slow.  Talk about whatever you want and if people want to participate they will and won't if they don't!!

[cyclone]

Skip - some excellent points.  I think many of us would not be here today if not for the friendships shared through PUT.  I'll admit to some concern over the direction the site may be headed.  I would love to see more activity here; but realize that not everyone likes to "talk" as much as some of us.  I also try to read posts with some objectivity and not take offense.  We are adults, and as such will never completely agree on all things.  I, too, was upset at the way it turned into an us/them kind of thing.  

As for the family feel of a message board, I'd like to share a story.  (Don't worry; my stories aren't quite as long as Austin's   ).  Anyway, a week or so ago on another message board I frequent, one of the members suffered the loss of her young child to meningitis.  The members decided to send her angel ornaments as a measure of comfort for her and her family.  I am amazed at the response to this simple request.  At last count 226 people volunteered to send an angel, many of which were hand-made.  Simply put, it was an outpouring of love and support from persons who are for the most part strangers, except for this strong tie of internet friendship.  While I certainly hope there is never a need to send angels to anyone here, I would like to think THIS board would react with such compassion.  

Ok, I'm climbing off my soapboax now.  Carry on.

[B-flat]

cyclone, I think the majority of us would react in the way you are presenting.

[wiininkwe]

Okay, I'll start this off by saying that I know I was one of those responsible for the other thread getting out of hand, and I am apologising to all of you for that.   I would like to try to find a way to solve this issue without having anyone's last nerve get frazzled, especially mine.   I realise that sometimes a perfectly good thread, with good info in it gets hijacked and becomes fluff.   That's unfortunate.  It shouldn't happen.  Maybe those of us who indulge in fluff (yes, me too) should try to watch ourselves to keep that from happening.  If we have an urge to start responding with just unrelated chatter, we should indicate that we want to move to a different thread to continue.  I would have suggested even taking it to private email, but that restricts others from jumping into the fun.  We should be allowed to have fun.   And maybe if we are going to begin a thread that we know others would view as fluff, we should put a 'F' in the subject line, to indentify it.  Or maybe start a new forum called Fluffernutters.    If we concede to make an attempt to keep fluff out of the way of other members who want to see only serious posts, then maybe they could agree not to criticize and ridicule when we do post this way.   There has to be a way to make everyone happy, at least a little bit.
T

[ForestCreature]

Okay, I'll start this off by saying that I know I was one of those responsible for the other thread getting out of hand, and I am apologising to all of you for that.
 

Apology accepted
 
   

[/color]I realise that sometimes a perfectly good thread, with good info in it gets hijacked and becomes fluff. That's unfortunate. It shouldn't happen.

It does happen, and sometimes it's entertaining.(yes, even I am guilty of it from time to time) A little humor thrown in now and then isn't that horrible. It's when it turns into a total hijack that bothers me.
 
   

[/color]I would have suggested even taking it to private email, but that restricts others from jumping into the fun.  We should be allowed to have fun.  

I agree about the fun part, can't take the fun out of everything. Maybe by starting a new fun (fluff) thread that picks up where any particular topic interruption (hijack) beagn....( this is a hard one to pin down in print :confused: )
 
 There is no real way to keep out all the fluff, and I'm not sure that I'd want to eliminate it all. What I'd really like to see , is more activity in the other sections of the board.
 
 
  [/color]

[wiininkwe]

You are right Marcy, about it being desirable to see more activity on other forums, and I wish I could tell you how to make that happen.  But, the thing is, I can't see how the fluff on the campfire forum could be blamed for the lack of topics on those other parts of the board.     That's the accusation, that the fluffers chased away the serious posters.   No one fluffs on the fix- it forum, nor on the general forum.  Or, if they do, the should keep it to the campfire.   Those who post serious questions or matters on those other forums shouldn't have any problem with the fluff on campfire, as it isn't there where they post.   Maybe that's why we see so many people get so frustrated when this question comes up.   We (those of us who fluff) are totally in agreement that some of our posts don't make any sense to lots of other people. (kind of a "ya had to be there", thing)   That's why we do it in a place that was originally designated for OT posts.   So that it won't bother those who don't like it.  The Administration gave us that forum as a way to be able to post about anything that we want to talk about as long as it isn't involving guns, sex, or bad language.   Or do I have that wrong?    So, when someone takes the time to post in the campfire forum that our 'fluffing' is offensive, we have to wonder why they are reading it.   And, if they are posting their complaint in the campfire forum, is their post fluff, too??   I hope that those of you reading this are not reading any kind of rant or anger into my tone, because that's not how i'm writing it.   Just trying to make some sense out of it.   Again, my question, How can the posting of "Fluff" on the campfire forum be held responsible for the lack of 'meaningful' posts on other forums?   Does someone have an answer for that?    Maybe we can get this out of the way, and go on to other things.
T

[ForestCreature]

[/color]But, the thing is, I can't see how the fluff on the campfire forum could be blamed for the lack of topics on those other parts of the board. That's the accusation, that the fluffers chased away the serious posters.

I think it's the lack of anything being posted in the other areas if anything is to blame, that did any chasing away. Not necessarily the fluff. The lack
 activity in other areas is how I see it. Maybe Bearbait can explain his views on why he posted it that way , I can't do that for him.
 
 
 

[/color]Again, my question, How can the posting of "Fluff" on the campfire forum be held responsible for the lack of 'meaningful' posts on other forums? Does someone have an answer for that?

[/color]
 
 You know me Toni, I have an answer for everything
 I don't believe the lack of posts in other forums are from "fluff"...
 It's simply from a lack of participation, waiting for the other person to start a topic. With everybody waiting for activity to begin, that is all that happens is they wait , and wait .....like I said in my origional reply in that last post, if everyone posted there would be activity.
 
 

[/color]I hope that those of you reading this are not reading any kind of rant or anger into my tone, because that's not how i'm writing it.

Not at all, atleast by me. It's good healthy dialog from where I sit
 [/color]

[wiininkwe]

Thanks for letting me get this out in a way that is understandable.   When I get mad, I get incomprehensible, LOL.   We/ve had to go over this topic so many times, and never have been able to come to a good end, maybe this time we'll get there, with more good dialogue and maybe some more good questions and suggestions.
T

[B-flat]

The majority voted on the Poll Forum that fluff is not killing the board. Any "community" will have some "fluff" going on and it is a way to break the ice and to form long term relationships with the camaraderie. While there has been a lag in posts on other Forums, I said that those complaining about "fluff" should go to other "meaningful" forums and find something meaningful to post. No apologies need to be made by any one who has "fluffed" in the Campfire forum. However, trying to rename the group from anything other than "fluffers" doesn't sit well with our group. It keeps coming back around many times and causes hurt feelings and then people don't feel welcome anymore and they quit posting. That is what is driving people away from the board, in my humble opinion. Why someone would want to continue to object to the allowable fluff and to come across as rude and disrespectrul to those members needs explaining.:confused:

I post to other forums when I do have something meaningful to add and I do start new threads from time to time. I try to participate as much as possible, but remember that I stayed away a long time because of the "flaming" toward other members that went on.

[bearbait]

B-flat, it is common knowledge that when someone posts a vote in the poll forum, how someone voted can be seen by all the administrators as to how each person voted.  So of course the majority of people that know that are not going to be voting because of this "big brother" mentality, watching our activties and possibly the reprecussions that could occur.  The vote was never intended to be accurate, it was meant to make a point, anyone who read that should have known that as they knew about the "big brother" effect such a vote would have.  The last time I looked, twelve people had actually voted and said yes, that they felt the fluff was killing the boards.  Are you actually implying that this board can afford to lose even twleve people?

 
As for these few people using me as their personal "whipping boy",  bring it on, but you had beter carefully consider the responses you may get if you keep insisting on these personal attacks.  Anyone reading the threads I started can plainly see that I never once attacked anyone personally,  if you are so understanding of the rules of the board, you should know that personal attacks are not permitted.  So why then are you making them toward me? And I would also like to add that Birol had a good point in that thread in the "new board issue's"...why are the admins not enforcing these rules about personal attacks?  If they did, I can think of several that would fall under that catagory.
 
If you don't like my posting style and you consider it offensive personally, you also have the choice not to read or reply to my posts, so don't.  I may not like your's either but that's just a personal preference.  But trying to use that logic that if I don't like the fluff then don't read it,  then you should have to read and post according to that same rule.  You can't have it both ways.
 
If my posts offended specific people, their guilty conscience shouldn't be taken out on me and that's exactly what has happened.
 
See, here is another fine example of what direction this board is going in  Skip asked a specific question and a few people took it and twisted the subject matter around into a personal attack on me.  Just as they did in that thread in the "board issue's" so that is proof right there of fluff spilling over into all area's of this board.  It isn't just the campfire,  it's everywhere and you don't have to go far to find it.
 
Too answer Skip's question and hopefully try to rescue yet another thread that has gone of course.....this board is a lost cause, their isn't anything anyone can do to save it. It has deteriorated too far at this point and you would be better off putting your efforts somewhere else rather than to bang your head against a wall.

[bearbait]

I got so caught up in the personal attack of B-flat that I overlooked the apology of Toni and the spirit it was intended, apology accepted.

[wiininkwe]

Just to get this straight, I just checked the poll forum.   Yes, 12 people did vote that fluff is killing the board.  And 33 people voted that it is not.   I'm not sure why anyone would worry about whether others can see how they voted, we all pretty much say what we feel here anyway.   Not trying to rock the boat, just wanted to make this more clear.  
 BTW, I want to say that I do agree with Nancy (b-flat) that no one should feel that they have to apologize for being fluffers.   I was apologizing for engaging in a little bit of mudslinging.  This board doesn't need that, and I'll try not to get into that again, but I refuse to consider this board a lost cause.
T