Advice Needed on Winter Camping in Pop-Up

[MichaelB]

Hello,

Normandy Farms, the RV resort in Massachusetts that I frequent during the summer months, is offering a pretty decent deal on off-season camping.  For about what I pay for a couple of weekends in July I can have a site from Feb 1 through the end of March.  With an indoor pool, fitness center, and a jacuzzi, the deal seems too good to pass up.  Even if I don't actually stay in the trailer I can still show up to use the facilities whenever I want -- and spending a few winter nights camping is pretty appealing.  The problem is, my 1993 Coleman Destiny doesn't have a heater and it's pretty cold up here.

I've done some research and it seems that all I really need for heating the pop-up is an indoor propane heater, such as the Paulin Tough Pup

http://www.bpproducts.com/indoorheater/index.asp

or a Coleman Blackcat Portable heater.

Based on your experience, will an indoor heater such as the ones listed above be sufficient to warm the pop-up well-enough during some cold overnights?  Or, should I pay for a site, leave the camper at home, and just use the pool and drive home?

Thanks for your help,

Mike

[mike4947]

Since we did the winter camping thing for years here's a few observations. At apx 20 degrees a 16,000 BTU furnace is just capable of keeping the box portion of a PU at apx 60 degrees. You'll use a 20 pound tank every two days. A battery will last apx 2 nights if you don't use the light from dark to bedtime. @ double bulb light fixtures use up apx 8 amps per hour and the fiurnace anither 4 amps.  Even then you find yourself closing off the bunk ends and sleeping on the dinette to conserve heat. THe little pound tanks for the heaters are good for about 2-3 hours on high and at 20 degrees you'll need it on high just to keep the temp above 40 degrees with the amount of window opening the manufacturers recommend when using an indoor heater. Furnaces are vented to the outside so no real opening are needed and you don't get combustion water vapor in the trailer.
The floor of the PU will freeze with the head level temperature at 60 degrees. We broke many pairs of wet boots loose that had frozen to the floor over night.
Forget using the water system in the PU. It won't stay above freezing with an exposed tank under the PU and the drain will freeze up even if the tank is under a dinette seat and heated.
Refletex is needed for the bunk ends and/or cover like PopUpGizmo's to keep frost from forming on the bunk end roofs.
AIr circulation is a must as even a furnace with twice the BTU output of the average propane heater 5-8K BTU's won't have enough circulation to prevent cold spots.
Rugs for the floor are also a must.
Anything stored outside need to be cover and also have a tarp under as well as over it. Nothing worse that finding Sunday afternoon while your packing up all the outside stuff is frozen to the ground.

Did we have fun doing it, yes we did, but figure we were young and foolish at the time and didn't have money for hotels when we wanted to go sjkiing or snowmobiling.
 
Another "fun" thing is no matter how dry the PU seems to be when you close it down. It will need to be opened up as your breath cause enough condensation in the canvas that with a few days above freezing after you get home it will mildew.

[MichaelB]

Thanks for the detailed response!  I just checked the NOAA website and determined that the average daily temperatures for the Boston area during February and March will be in the 30s-40s for highs and 20s for lows.  This means that I'll definitely be running into the freezing and heating issues (and hassles) that you mentioned.

While I really like the size and convenience of the pop-up, I really need something that's more appropriate for cold weather.  I'm considering a compromise between the compactness of a popup and the year-round convenience of a travel trailer.  A solid sided pop-up, such as an Aliner, may fit the bill.  They're pretty rare around here and fairly expensive, but may be worth a look.

Thanks,  Mike

[dee106]

Thanks for the detailed response! I just checked the NOAA website and determined that the average daily temperatures for the Boston area during February and March will be in the 30s-40s for highs and 20s for lows. This means that I'll definitely be running into the freezing and heating issues (and hassles) that you mentioned.
 
While I really like the size and convenience of the pop-up, I really need something that's more appropriate for cold weather. I'm considering a compromise between the compactness of a popup and the year-round convenience of a travel trailer. A solid sided pop-up, such as an Aliner, may fit the bill. They're pretty rare around here and fairly expensive, but may be worth a look.
 
Thanks, Mike

dry camping is a problem, but having electric site it can be done. we have a hybrid now, and we only use one bunk end, but with both the popup and this one we throw a wool blanket (army) over the bunkend, and then a large bunk end cover (tarp). we open a heavy sleeping bag on top of the mattress, to stop the coolness from coming threw,  and use a blanket and electric blanket as a cover.  we use a electric heater (ceramic) on the floor blowing from the far end to us, and we have a carpet runner on the floor. we keep the water in jugs in front of the furance vent to keep it warm.(kicks on when inside temp goes under 50*) we have a small fan pointed up at the ceiling on low to move the hot air around. stops condensation (many people forget hot air raises )

[topcat7736]

Mike,
 
You can have the standard 16000 btu furnace, installed in your popup by a Coleman dealer, for $400 (parts + labor). A mummy bag (for below zero weather) will keep you warm if the propane runs out. There won't be any water concerns because northern campgrounds don't have water turned on in the winter.
 
My big concern is the snow and ice rain that can fall on the trailer. Popups are really more fair weather devices and an Aliner, travel trailer, Class A or C might be a better thing to have.

[AustinBoston]

One more tip...you can use a pair of ceramic heaters.

If you plug both into the pop-up's electrical system, you may run into trouble with popping circuit breakers.  Instead, plug one into the pop-up's electrical system, and plug the other directly into the power post using a heavy-duty extension cord (at least 14 gauge, 12 would be better). Run the extension through the velcro or around the bottom of the bunk end.  It can get you past the current limits of the pop-up electrical system, and gives you the option of pointing the two heaters in different directions.

If you want to wake up dry in the AM, you have to leave a lot of window space open with a non-venting propane heater.  You can use a lot of propane heating the great outdoors.

There have been extensive discussions here about the safety of propane heaters that do not vent outside.  If you decide to do this, please get a separate carbon monoxide detector.  Otherwise, you are betting your lives on the reliability of the catalytic heater's oxygen sensor.

With whatever type of heater you use, make sure it isn't sitting on or too close to flamamble materials such as drapes or tenting.

Austin (too old for winter camping)

[mikewilley]

I'll add one to AB's advice.  We have camped in the low 20s, our configuration was 2 electric ceramic heaters, solar covers over the bunkends (turned dark side out), and electric blankets between our sleeping bags and the mattress.

We actually had to keep the electric blankets at 1/4 power to avoid getting too hot.  I will say that the box never got too hot though.  Like any winter camping experience a few days is fine, but it sure feels good to get back to central heating when the trip is done.

Enjoy!