Hubby got fired!!

[NightOwl]

It sounds as thought it doesnt matter what you do, your husband is determined to paint a picture where  you are always in the wrong.  but you are providing him with the canvas and the brush.

So maybe, since you cant change him,  it would help if you changed your behaviour a bit.

Instead of going to that bar,  it might help if you and your friends found another place to hang out on your "night-out" like a local coffee shop or even going to the mall or a movie--any place where your nice male friend is not present..  At least it removes one source of husband's complaints.  Of course, your going to the bar is not the REAL problem here, but if he keeps accusing you of these things, it is sure proof that the bar and the friend are just an excuse, that the man is unbalanced, and all he wants to do is control you.  (IF the latter is true, you will NEVER please him, and  you could be in danger.)

Also, your considerable weight loss has  probably added to  his feelings of insecurity--another sign that he  is dealing with many more things than the loss of his job and the tensions this causes.  Professional counseling is really necessary here whether you stay together or not  Statistics show that if   neither of you gets  help and you do split up, you are both  probably going to go on and repeat the same mistakes with others that you made with each other.

Something else which might help is to seek emotional support and counseling from a church group or from your pastor.  Many pastors today are trained in psychological and marriage counseling and charge their parishioners little or nothing for this sort of help.

Things have reached a crisis point in your home and it is important to do something POSITIVE about this  NOW  because  living in this kind of situation is going to have a very  damaging effect on your children and as Nancy hinted earlier, may actually  be putting  you and them at risk of great danger.

[AustinBoston]

Internet marriage advice is just like internet legal advice and internet medical advice.  Worth every penny you pay for it.

It's not that such advice is necessarily bad, but without knowing you or your husband personally, those giving it are not in a position to weigh the consequences.  And without specific training (or a HUGE amount of experience) they are not likely to even KNOW the possible consequences.

PJay and I are the only members of her family to see marriage counselors repeatedly.  At the same time, we are the only ones (out of six siblings and parents) to never be divorced (some twice, and one three times).  Even a stable marriage can be improved upon with professional advice.

It is not unusual for a marriage to go through high stress after a job loss (I have been unemployed for more than a month on 5-6 occasions, so I know this from experience).  At this point, (with the help of counselors in the past) we have both become accustomed to it, so this time (6 months and counting) it's not even a blip on the radar screen.

It may seem like you can't afford a marriage counselor right now, but a divorce will cost you hundreds of times as much as the counselor.  When you finish with the counselor, you stop paying.  But there are plenty of divorced people who continue to pay for it for the rest of their lives.

It's been over 30 years since PJay's parents were divorced, and they both still pay for it every day, along with each of their children, and I see it in the grandchildren that were born 10, 15, and 20 years after the fact.

You can't afford to not handle this correctly, and you have to start with a competent, successful professional.  A clergyman is a good place to start, but many know they are only a starting place and can/will refer you to someone who will be able to help you work through your difficulties.  He is likely to refer you to someone who is knowledgeable in and deeply respectful of your religious beliefs and will weave that into the services he provides.  This is important, because I know of no religion that treats marriage like a disposable commodities.

Even if you have no particular religious beliefs, understand that God does not want to see your marriage in a mess.

Now for my own (less than 2 cent) advice: YOU are the only person you can change.  If you are successful in changing your partner, you will despise or hate what you get.  The best you can do is to become the person you should be (the person God wants you to be).  Notice I said the person you should be, not the person your partner wants you to be.  That's the flip side.  If you become who they want you to be, they will despise or hate you.  Therein lies the rub...knowing who you are supposed to be, apart from God (or at least a very good counselor) is extremely difficult.

Seeing a counselor is not an admission of failure any more than seeing a medical doctor is an admission of failure.  Please go together, and if he won't go with you, go without him.

Austin

[NightOwl]

AB is right about this mess you are in.  Nothing said by  any or us, or the people your husband is cyber-complaining to, is worth a damn since we   have never seen you and dont know the entire situation you and your husband are dealing with, and MOST IMPORTANT  of all,  are NOT  qualified counselors.  All we can do is make "guesses" based on our own experiences, and then say  something we hope will be helpful to you in some way.


One reason I suggested seeing a minister is because you have NO MONEY to spare  and if you start this process by seeing a spiritual advisor, knowing your financial plight to begin with, he can aim you in the right direction. Today, any church leader worth his salt knows every detail of the local social service system and can put you in touch with  someone who does this kind of work and charges little or nothing.  And like Tom said, there is nothing wrong in seeking help.  If you had a broken leg, you'd not hesitate to see a doctor; with a broken relationship you just see a different kind of "doctor."  If  your husband does not want to go, then you must go alone.

But one of the first questions  you are likely to be asked by any professionslly trained marriage counselor is: "Do BOTH of you REALLY want to stay in this marriage?"   And the answer has to be an honest one, because unless both of you are willing and able to change and to find a way to truly heal the wounds of the past, you will never make it.  Also, while I tend to agree with Austin that divorce  is not a good answer, and that it victimizes families for generations to come, I think this is NOT TRUE  for EVERY single marriage--and this partly depends on what is really wrong.  If one of you is of low moral character or has severe mental/emotional problems, than there may be very good reasons to separate.

Whatever happens, we hope you will get help.  Please know that you are in our prayers.  (And, BTW, this is not intended as criticism, but it might help if you both stop spending time in bars--alcohol, even in small amounts, does not help people to think clearly.  Also, it's probably not  usually an atmosphere where either of you will find useful answers to your  problems.  Sympathy, yes, wise answers, not often.)

[angelsmom10]

I agree with the above that we are not counselors, just caring friends (as for me, my X was the same way -- talked non-truths to others [even my family - who believe him]).
 
Being in the similiar situation, definitely speak to your church.  Also, DEFINITELY advise the teachers/counselors at your childrens' school.  This for sure is or at least will be effecting them.  Teachers will be able to help your children emotionally knowing there are problems at home.

[birol]

AB is right ...... We are all trying to help, but you need more than our good intended recommendations.


Good luck with it all.

[B-flat]

AB is right that we are not professional counselors.  We are friends trying to help.  Experience tells me quite a lot about your situation even if I don't know you.  Let's just say, "Been there, done that" to do with a bad marriage.  I just "know" instinctively when there is more going on than a lost job.  Stay tuned because the real reasons will come to the surface as time goes on.  Remember that when one person is placing the most criticism on the other one, there is usually more than just anger over a lost job.  It's reasonable to give up some of the behavior that he seems to be complaining about.  It's not reasonable to give up your entire identity or all the things you enjoy.  However, if you want to save your marriage, then do like NightOwl said, stay out of bars and away from the good looking male friend. Find other activities to do with friends at your house or theirs.  Take care of yourself and your children.  Is he attempting to get another job?  Or, is he just taking it easy and looking for any excuse not to work?  Start keeping a log of your activities and of what he says and does around you, in case you need to discuss things with your counselor.

[MPTDAT]

Ok, my FIL took the kids for the weekend to be alone together. We went out to dinner with our neighbors and then went to an irish pub for a drink, then we decided to go to our bar to see our friends. We all drove in the same car, a rental, as my mountaineer is in the shop. We get to our bar and all is fine for a while, we are playing the jukebox and having a good time. After a while, my male friend walks in. I didn't even acknowledge that he was there and went on to have a good time. While I was in the bathroom, my friend walks up to DH and they proceded to have a lengthy conversation about football (boring!!). All was good then my neighbors wanted to go home. DH said that he would run them home and come right back. When he came back, I was sitting at the table with 2 female friends and my male friend. DH jammed a stool in between us and sat down and proceded to what I thought, have a good time. Well this morning he was acting weird and I asked him about it. He asked me what went on in the 10 minutes he was gone to take the neighbors home. He also said he wanted no secrets between us and asked me to empty my purse for him to see everything that was in there. I have never felt so degraded in my life! I have no idea what he expected to find in there but he found nothing. He already checks the caller ID and the redial history on the phone, he has even checked my cell phone to see who I have called and who has called me. I am losing my mind! I don't know how much more of this I can take.

[wiininkwe]

A few people have mentioned getting professional help, and a few have suggested cutting down on time spent in the bars and consuming alcohol.  I'll second both of those ideas.  If your DH has no job, and you are a stay at home mom, you have no money to spend there.  And, if I understand correctly, your FIL agreed to take your kids so you could spend time "alone together".  It seems that he assumed that you wanted to try to talk and work things out.  Kind of hard to do while pub crawling.  Maybe you think I'm sounding kinda hard line about this, maybe I am.   But if you really want to end the chaos in your life, you need to change the behavior that causes it.   Don't mean to sound critical, just trying to make a point.
T

[brainpause]

This may be tough love from your second family, but I will agree with Toni and what she said just above my reply here.

Larry

[topcat7736]

I'll third what Toni said. You and your DH need professional help & advice. At this point, both of you are pushing each other away. Just look at a couple of the situations you've told to us & you'll see what the two of you are doing.

1)At the bar, (where the two of you shouldn't have been) your DH left you with your friend while he drove the others home. A planned pitfall for you to further support his claims to his friends of infidelity on your part. He can say "she preferred to stay with him rather than go with me". (Even when warned about it, you stayed in the bar rather than going with your DH on the trip).

2) Your statement that your friend was hurt by being neglected by you shows that you have and do spend time with him, even if it's a platonic relationship. This is just another way to spite your DH. Plus, you tell us the friend is "young, good looking and just a friend". Isn't, to you, your DH "young, good looking and your BEST friend"?

I, too, don't want to appear mean. The only "side" I'm taking is that of Toni's.

[NightOwl]

MPTDAT, please THINK!  

Has  ANYONE here encouraged you to continue going to bars and  carrying on a friendship with someone whose presence is complicating your marriage?  Why do you keep coming here for ideas about this when you act as though nothing we have said makes sense to you?  

 Basically EVERYONE on the board who has responded to this situation is in agreement on several important things.

1.   YOU NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP.

2.  Your friendship (no matter how innocent) with this other guy is causing BIG problems between you and your husband.    

3.  STAY OUT OF BARS!  Socailizing with friends is good.   Doing it in bars on a regular basis is NOT!  Move your "friendships" to a coffeeshop or cafe--or even the local MacDonalds. If your "friends" srefuse to move from the bar, you'd better take a good look at them.  

Ask yourself some hard questions about them.  What kind of people are they REALLY?  What sort of moral standards do they have?  How are their OWN marriages working?  Do they believe 100% in being faithful?  Do they care that small children are involved?  Do they take your sad situation seriously or do some of them think of this as a soap opera for their own amusement?  

Consider this: We who are trying to help you here  are from all walks of life, ages, and geographic regions.  Are you PAYING ANY ATTENTION TO WHAT WE HAVE BEEN SAYING?   HELLOOO, here,   WE ARE ALL GIVING YOU THE SAME ADVICE and are  dismayed,  given your particular circumstanceses, that you continue to make the same mistakes.  

Once again:  It is very significant that we have ALL GIVEN YOU THE SAME  ADVICE.

And remember: NO ONE'S MARRIAGE WAS  EVER IMPROVED BY HANGING OUT IN A BAR!!

[NightOwl]

In fact, you would be well advised to exchange the bar scene for a  young married group at church.  A church group can provide you with an almost endless  supply of warm friends you have things in common with, emotional support, moral guidance, inexpensive ways to socailize, and lots of WHOLESOME activites which YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY CAN SHARE IN!

this is not a substitute for seeing a marriage counselor.

[Danusmom]

I can't believe I'm actually going to post this....I agree with the above posts, including Nightowl.  You owe your life partner with whom you exchanged marriage vows with & you owe your children to be immensely proactive in mending your marriage.  There is far more at stake here than just your & your DH's "feelings".  Your children are entitled to a 2-parent-loving home.

Communication is only 3% words, the other 97% is tone of voice, body language, actions, voice inflictions, etc.  I have to say, it appears you are handling this "friendship" with your male friend & your DH in a very dyslexic manner.  If you ignore your "friend" in front of your DH & then socialize with your "friend" when your DH is not around...this odd behavior would raise suspicion in anyone's mind.  As a rule of human nature, when people have a void of information, they tend to fill in the gap with extrapolations & "non-truths".  Hence, this is how rumors can run wild.  You owe your family the respect NOT to socialize with this "friend" when not in the presence of your family.  Or, simply not socialize with your "friend" at all.  True friends have each others best interest at heart.  Thus far, by your own account, you have given reasons for your DH to be suspicious.  

Having endured 2 lay-offs in 2 years, I can tell you it is very stressful on the entire family.  The 1st time DH was laid-off, our DS was 7 weeks old.  I was already a wreck with the hormones out of whack & sleep deprivation.  DH was VERY devastated as the company (DCX) had recruited him out of college & moved him here.  He had worked for Chrysler/DCX for 12+ years & felt not only betrayed, but extremely demoralized as the sole provider for our family.  We made a pack to never display our stress in front of DS & that we would take time out to de-stress & re-energize ourselves.  It worked until 2 days before DH was to begin a new job.  He strayed into a venue which on the surface appeared much more sinister than what it actually was.  As a result DH went to one-on-one counseling for 3 or 4 months (then I started attending with him) before we both came to realize it was his make-shift way of grappling at a sense of control & nothing more.  Had we not had that counseling intervention we would have not stayed married, nor would we have endured the 2nd lay-off, 2 years later, so well.

The 2nd time DH was laid-off work, we were much more prepared financially as we had refinanced the house for a lower mortgage rate and we set up a revolving home equity loan long before the lay-off occurred.  This relieved a lot of stress.  Plus, we were better prepared emotionally having gone through  this before & with the counseling.  It was still nerve racking.  But, we had the "tools" to handle this temporary set-back.

With the intense stress of a situation such as yours, you really need to focus on what really matters: keeping an intact family for the sake of your children.  And, that means going to any length possible to achieve that goal.  A really good counselor will help you achieve that goal.  You all sound like you

[B-flat]

Well, I agree with the above. You need to try to keep your marriage intact and you need to think about the children as well as yourself. A counselor can help you deal with the "distrust" issues your husband is creating like his searching your purse and checking caller ID for "anything." At the same time a counselor can help you in so many ways to understand the situation and to try to help you regain some peace at home. If you don't get the right counselor the first time, then find one who will listen and who will give you ideas on what to do. I have been told that some counselors only listen to people vent without really helping. Please know that people here at PUT care and are trying to help but you need additional help that we can't give you. The future is in your hands and you can try to make it better for your family. The other alternative is to do nothing and to keep enduring a world of unhappiness, distrust, and downright emotional and verbal abuse which can escalate into physcial abuse. Nothing is sacred in a marriage like that and it will bleed over and affect you and your children for years to come. So far you tell us that things are not better, so biding your time has not helped so far. Visiting bars has not helped either. Next time you want to get out of the house with husband, do something different for just the two of you. It might be nice to have some limits on just how much you can tolerate, too, and don't keep letting those limits be overstepped. Allowing certain things to continue only reinforces that behavior from your husband. Take care of yourself and your children. I hope things improve for you.

[AustinBoston]

Also, while I tend to agree with Austin that divorce  is not a good answer, and that it victimizes families for generations to come, I think this is NOT TRUE  for EVERY single marriage--and this partly depends on what is really wrong.  If one of you is of low moral character or has severe mental/emotional problems, than there may be very good reasons to separate.

This is a major oversight on my part and is 100% true.  If one partner is creating physical danger (and cheating ALWAYS creates physical danger) then there is a hard question to face and only a permanent end to that danger can resolve the issue.  In those situations, sometimes (but not always) divorce is the only option.

Austin