Pop-up vs. Expandable: TV is Astro + dumb Q

[Unregistered]

Hi all, I am shopping for our first ever TT. We have a small dog and 4 kids. They are 1, 4, 16, 18 yo. The teens rarely travel with us anymore. We are on a budget, so our 2001 Astro will have to do as our only TV. My Q is: looking at cost and towing ease, do you all think we would do better with a pop-up or an ultra-lite expandable trailer? The expandables we are looking at (Thor, Forest River) are 17 ft closed. I like that is has a "real" bathroom. They weigh about the same as a deluxe PU (2700 lbs dry, or so...). The PU I am considering is a Fleetwood/Coleman Niagara (glide-out, shower/toilet, 2 king beds). I think even tho they weigh about the same, the PU would be an easier tow. We live in So Calif and would be tackling mountain roads (Big Bear, Yosemite, Sequoia etc). Do you all prefer PU to expandables?

Also, really dumb Q: since a PU is like a tent, can you safely keep the food stored in the kitchen area at night while sleeping? I know when I used to tent camp in Yosemite, we would hang food from a tree to keep bears away and were told never to keep it in the tent unless you wanted late night company. Many a time we woke to see bears trying to open trash containers and etc. What do you all do?

Thanks,
kdw909@comcast.net

[moderator1]

FYI, This was originally posted in the classified section.  I moved it here and set up the author with a trail membership.

Welcome kdw909!

[moderator1]

Also, really dumb Q: since a PU is like a tent, can you safely keep the food stored in the kitchen area at night while sleeping? I know when I used to tent camp in Yosemite, we would hang food from a tree to keep bears away and were told never to keep it in the tent unless you wanted late night company. Many a time we woke to see bears trying to open trash containers and etc. What do you all do?

Thanks,

Well, I'll throw my $.02 in on part of your question.

You will find that in any location that has bear restrictions in place for tents, will also have them in place for ANY RV that has tenting.  This would include pop ups and expandables with canvas ends.

Stop on by the forums for these two clubs for more California specific information:

SoCal PopUp Campers (SCCampers)

NCCNEPHCOFF (Nick-Neff-Cough   Northern California)

[tlhdoc]

Do you know what the tow rating for your van is?  I am guessing that it is in the 5000 to 6000 pound range.  Your van should handle a large PU or light hybrid trailer.  That said the choice is really up to each family.  I like the PU.  It is easier to tow, I can keep it in a friends garage and my mileage is better towing it than it would be to tow a full size trailer.  The hybrid trailers have less setup and take down time and you can stop at a rest area and use the facilities.  

In bear country it is a bad idea to keep food in any trailer with tenting (and in some places even hard side trailers).  Here in PA I do keep food in the trailer, our black bears aren't as aggressive as the western bears.

Happy camping and good luck on the hunt for your trailer.

[kathybrj]

There are several gear ratios on the Astro/Safari's. Check the RPO codes in the interior glove box or sometimes the interior of one of the front doors. This is a site to check the ratios by the RPO code:

http://www.wiu.edu/users/muwtj1/rpocodes.htm

I *believe* the codes that start with the letter "G" are the gear codes.

From there, you can call a dealer and let them know what your ratio is and they will be able to give you the capacity.

Also, here's a site that has tons of Astro/Safari info:

http://www.astrosafari.net/

[jaycocamprs]

These are the 3 most common ratios for Astro/Safari-S10/S15

GU4 AXLE REAR, 3.08 RATIO

This is not a good towing ratio. Will be ok with trailers under 2500# and hills less than 6%. Our Jimmy will not pull 2800# up a 6% grade in 3rd with out the torque converter unlocking

GU6 AXLE REAR, 3.42 RATIO

This is a better ratio. Good for over 2500# and steeper hills. Our blazer would pull 2800 up 6% grade in 3rd with the torque converter locked. I never had a problem going 55-65 on interstate highways.

GT4 AXLE REAR, 3.73 RATIO

This would be the best for towing heavy trailers on steeper grades.
 
One thing to remember is the hybrid will have a much greater frontal area than the popup. The faster you go the more this will affect your towing.

[Tim5055]

Another issue to take into consideraion may be "frontal area".  Not only do tow vehicles have a weight limitation as to what they can tow, they have a limitation on the area of the trailer that can be exposed (I think it is usually measured in square feet).

With an expandable you will have part of the camper exposed to the wind while a pop up rides comfortably below the roof level of the tow vehicle.

I think all in all you will have an easier towing experience with a pop up over that of an expandable/hybrid.

[brainpause]

For the size of popup versus the size of hybrid that you will be able to tow with the Astro, you will probably actually have a little more space with a popup equipped with slideout, such as the Niagara that you are considering. The additional benefit is what Tim said: the smaller amount of frontal area.

Granted, you will have a shorter setup time with a hybrid, but you could also shorten your TV's life if you get a hybrid that's too big. And, on a rainy day, you will want all the space you can get with 1 and 4 year olds!

Larry

[jawilson]

Do you know what the tow rating for your van is?  I am guessing that it is in the 5000 to 6000 pound range.  

On a good day I'll bet the towing capacity for an Astro is 5000. My guess is that you'll more likely find a 3500 limit.

In bear country it is a bad idea to keep food in any trailer with tenting (and in some places even hard side trailers).  Here in PA I do keep food in the trailer, our black bears aren't as aggressive as the western bears.

I guess you've never been to Hickory Run SP, have you?    You go to the back loops their, by the walk-in sites, and you'll find that those SOB's are pretty darn aggressive. We were their on a day that a big male ripped the door off a TT to get at some food. And one night we were sitting around the camp fire -- 4 adults and 5 kids -- when 3 bears just decided to go from site to site foraging. We had to chase them away 3 times before they got the hint and left for good.

[jawilson]

Hi all, I am shopping for our first ever TT. We have a small dog and 4 kids. They are 1, 4, 16, 18 yo. The teens rarely travel with us anymore. We are on a budget, so our 2001 Astro will have to do as our only TV.

Your TV will definitely limit what you can get in the hybrid class of trailer. AAMOF, I'd guess what you can tow, and what you'd need in order to satisfy your families needs, won't be compatible. I can't see you being able to enjoy a hybrid in the 16-18 foot range, which is about all I think you'll be able to tow.

Some of the 10-12 foot PU's have slides, which can make quite a difference in room. And your TV should be able to handle all but the largest/heaviest of them. That might be a better choice for you.

[kdw909]

Thanks all for your input. Although I really ike the expandables, I don't want to push it with our Astro so we are going with a PU. Also, they seem less pricey. My goal is to stick with the PU for several years until we can afford a C class. Right now that is out of the Q. With 2 teen drivers in the house, our insurance premiums are already out of this world!!

Re the bears....  I am thinking to keep all the non-refrigerated stuff in a huge plastic rubbermaid and put it in the locked car at night. If the bears manage to get in there, then my camping days are over!! YIKES!
~k

[PopupSgt]

I own a 2001 GMC Safari AWD w/ 3.73 gears.  I pull a 2003 Jayco 14SO with this vehicle.  I can tell you the van struggles to pull the camper which is especially noticeable on hills.  The 4.3L 6cy is extremely under powered for this vehicle and with weight of passengers, goods, and camper it definetely struggles.  I believe my tow capacity is 5100#'s for my van & there is absolutely no way I would feel comfortable in coming close to that weight.  I am currently debating of purchasing a larger TV like suburban or excursion for the comfort factor of the camper, occupants, and goods.

[brainpause]

... currently debating of purchasing a larger TV like suburban or excursion for the comfort factor of the camper, occupants, and goods.

...and for more braking power. :p

Larry

[mike4947]

Danger Thread Highjack in progress
 

Re the bears.... I am thinking to keep all the non-refrigerated stuff in a huge plastic rubbermaid and put it in the locked car at night. If the bears manage to get in there, then my camping days are over!! YIKES!
~k

A good move is to contact the park where you are going to stay and ask about their "bear policy". On the east coast what you suggest is usually sufficient, but out west the Brownies can  smell a ham sandwich through any auto body and will open it up like a tuna can to get to it.
 
Resume normal thread operation.

[Tim5055]

This is from the Yosemite National Park web site

Federal regulations require that all food and related supplies be stored in the metal storage "bear boxes" in each campsite. Each box measures 33"(D)x45"(W)x18"(H).No food storage is allowed in vehicles. Food may be stored in a hard-sided trailer, motorhome, or recreational vehicle (RV) as long as the food is not visible or odoriferous from the outside. Windows and doors must be kept closed if the vehicle is unattended.

Yosemite National Park/National Park Service Bear Information