I'm back - kinda long

[OnTheGround]

From what I've read over the short time that I've lurked here, on PUX, IRV2 and Trailerlife's forum I'm sure your decision was mixed. The magazine isn't Time or Newsweek and I'd bet you could count the staff at PUT on 1 hand, so in my opinion you guys are doing a great job and I really thought the last issue was terrific!

This board seems to be a very tight group and I think it was a good idea to charge because it keeps the nuts from posting and I'd have no problem letting my kids lurk here (even thought they don't). I'll renew when it's time.

Dan

PS - I guess it's time to change my handle - I bought a new Jayco BajaQuest about a month ago. I'll have to think of a new name.

[NightOwl]

PS - I guess it's time to change my handle - I bought a new Jayco BajaQuest about a month ago. I'll have to think of a new name.

Congratulations, Dan!!!

OK,next  we expect a report in the General section on what it is now like to be OFF The Ground in such a Grand Way!  :#

.  Do you miss the rocks and roots under the sleeping bag?:J  Gosh, I think most of us started out in a tent and still  get sore shoulder blades when we remember what it was like.... :eek:

(WE had a DD with a spider phobia and every evening I had to get on my hands and knees and hunt down any stray spiders that might have found their way into the tent since morning :banghead:  )

[bearbait]

So let me get this straight,  you all claim to go back to the beggining of PUT (but I can't even remeber any of you from back then),  and that somehow makes you a better human being because you have tenure?Give me a break.........

[MommaMia]

I don't think anyone here feels they're superior because of tenure.  If that's why any person comes here... to feel superior over someone else, then they got the wrong board.  That's not what this place is all about.

This is where we come to chill out and get to know people, share and learn something, sometimes related to camping, often not.  Sometimes you learn stuff that you never imagine that you'd pick up from a camping site.

BB... you haven't been a part of this community for the past 5 months.  Just because you claim to come here and read, that doesn't make you an active member of this community.   Back in November, your last post was... "Now I just need to do my part in making this community appealing to all the members, and I'm still searching for how I'm going to accomplish that personally."    You haven't done anything about making this place appealing in the past 5 months.

And...
after 5 months, your first post contained these words...."I think it's time for me to start posting again after a long winter and try and add to this community once again, in whatever way I can."  Does that mean regardless of whether it's adding in a positive way.  So far your contributions have been negative in tone and extremely confrontational.    I have yet to see you say 1 thing that contributes to a friendly, appealing environment, to old timers and new comers alike.  I'd really LIKE to see that but I won't hold my breath.

[bearbait]

BB... you haven't been a part of this community for the past 5 months.

True. And neither has Dave. He's come back and is going to try "like hell to make it better"

[B-flat]

I can't remember the exact date I found this site but it has probably been 3 or so years ago.  I was off for a while when the board went to a paying site and then someone gave me a "gift subscription" and I have been here since.  The board has come a long way since the beginning and Dave has created a site with both a message board and a magazine dedicated to Pop Up camping that is unlike any other site.  I'm glad Dave decided not to sell the magazine and message board site.  It shows his dedication to pop up camping and not just to a money making machine.  I don't think anyone here has some kind of tenured seniority or superiority unless it's Dave.  I do think, though, that I am a better human being and better at camping because of the information and education about popup camping that I have gained here in addition to the friendships, be it cyber or at real live campouts.  I have not always agreed with every single post here but that's ok, too.  What a monotonous world it would be if everyone agreed on every single thing, however, I do tend to lean toward the more positive things in life.  Life is just too short to be heavily burdened with negatives and unpleasantness.  If someone has problems that need to be aired or solutions wanted for those problems, then there are plenty of folks here who are willing to help in any way possible.  Most of the time, campers are willing to help their fellow campers.  They're just some of the most friendly people to be found anywhere and they are some of the most caring people.

[griffsmom]

but I won't hold my breath.

Cindy, does that you make you "baited breath"? :J
 
 
Sorry, it was such a great straight line and I just couldn't pass it up.  (Stepping out of the line of fire now....:yikes: )

[Camping Coxes]

Dan
 
PS - I guess it's time to change my handle - I bought a new Jayco BajaQuest about a month ago. I'll have to think of a new name.

Okay.  We need to help Dan find a PUT moniker.
 
How about DannyQuest, like the old Johnny Quest superhero?

[wiininkwe]

For the last few days I've been kinda busy, not much time to check the board or email.  This morning I'm back, and thought I would take a look at what I had thought was a very encouraging thread by Dave, giving us an idea of the kinds of things that have been rolling around in his mind for the last several months.  There were a lot of posts by people, like myself, who are happy here, and are hoping that Dave doesn't see a need to change something that is for us, a "Happy Place".   Some of those threads are from people that I count among my good friends, people whose general outlook is similiar to mine.  Some are from folks that I don't know as well, some with the same thinking as me, some with very different opinions.   And, that's as it should be, a healthy exchange of ideas and thoughts.   And it's also healthy that there are some people who form associations or relationships with others who are like minded.    
  Why then, do I suddenly see an outburst by a member who is offended that some of us agree on our feelings about this board, and the magazine?   And not for the first time, I might add.    And sharply labels us as members of a 'clicque'.   Again, people gravitate towards other people with like minds, and this member has friends on the board who have the same opinions he does.   Is this not a 'clicque' as well?
  Normally, we may (agree to) disagree in principal on some of the ideas or concepts put forward in some threads, but very seldom do most of us take it to a personal level, as this member does.   Kelly made a remark in her post about the fact that this board may have "saved her life".  There are others here who use this board as a place to put aside the problems that they face in their daily lives, and that's a testament to the success of this board, that we can claim such a good camaradie and offer support to those friends in need.    No one should have to worry about being chastised, criticized, or lectured that their participation here does not meet the standards of another member.     I would never go so far as to suggest that anyone not be allowed to post constructive criticism, but to be blatantly disrespectful of other members is totally outside the realm of acceptable behavior.   Kelly, I respect you, and have enjoyed your posts, I am not directing this "vent" to you in any way.   BB, I am directing it at you, that's no secret.   If I were your Mom, I'd have ahold of your ear, and would be giving you a lesson in manners.  
T

[Kelly]

I would never go so far as to suggest that anyone not be allowed to post constructive criticism, but to be blatantly disrespectful of other members is totally outside the realm of acceptable behavior.   Kelly, I respect you, and have enjoyed your posts, I am not directing this "vent" to you in any way.   BB, I am directing it at you, that's no secret.   If I were your Mom, I'd have ahold of your ear, and would be giving you a lesson in manners.  
T

First I have to say a great big ROFLMAO to Lori!  Most excellent funny!  :J


Toni ~ You bring up a very good point.  As Elisa pointed out, the Prodigal Camper is returning.  Perhaps what we are dealing with here is merely a difference in communication styles.  Maybe it is our job as members of this community to teach new (or returning) members in a kind way how to be a part of this community.  There are many people at PUT who have camped with BB who will tell you that he is nothing like he appears on these boards.  

Seems to me BB is making an effort to reach out and join us again.  Shouldn't we welcome him as the Prodigal Camper and ease his transition a bit?  Maybe everybody needs to take a step back and forgive past hurts.  Seems to me that is the way things would be done in a Peaceable Kingdom.

Kelly (who thought she was done with this thread!  Mea Culpa)

[wiininkwe]

Kelly, you're so right, every returning prodigal camper should be welcomed back!   Communication styles notwithstanding,  BB always brings us a new perspective, and I have no objection to that.     What I object to, and not only in the past, but in this thread, is his habit of rudeness and meanspiritedness.   Imagine yourself on the playground, (I know, I know) and you see the former schoolyard bully walking over.  You're willing to live and let live, til he reaches over and shoves someone.  Are you gonna run over and hug him for coming back?   I realise that I can't expect him to get all warm and fuzzy, that's not BB. (sorry, we really shouldn't be talking about him as if he's not here, but...)   But he can at least make an effort to be somewhat pleasant to other members.   As you said, he has friends who don't see this side of him, so he must be nice sometimes.    I saw his post on favorite place to camp, and it was great, I could almost visualize his surroundings myself.   He made a post without being rude to anyone, haha, so we know he can do it.   (Please realize that these remarks are  tongue in cheek, and there isn't a smiley for that)
 
  Bearbait, I do appreciate the viewpoints you bring to the board, don't stop trying to enlighten us.  You just don't have to bop us over the head to do it.  
 
And thanks Kelly, for giving me some exchange on this matter.  
 
T

[B-flat]

Is this some of what is being referred to as rather rude?
Quote:
bearbait

 "So let me get this straight, you all claim to go back to the beggining of PUT (but I can't even remeber any of you from back then), and that somehow makes you a better human being because you have tenure?Give me a break........."

Maybe bearbait is someone of words that just seem to come out unintentionally the way they did and that tend to put some on the defensive.  I loved his post on camping alone with his son.  I could relate to the surroundings he described.  I'd love to see more posts like that. Yeah, bearbait you've got to live up to what Kelly described: ("There are many people at PUT who have camped with BB who will tell you that he is nothing like he appears on these boards.") So you had better be on this cyber board the way you are when you did some live camping with others! :!  :sombraro:  :Z

[NightOwl]

well, I will join in and say what I really think  and I will probably end up being sorry for being so open about this whole matter.  People have brought up the subject of BearBait--I wouldnt have, but it is probably the best way to get this mess behind us.  So now  I will  reveal my original admiration of him and my shock and  disappointment in how he has changed and my hopes that somehow he will come to believe  that we are not "against" him just because we dont always agree with him.
Funny thing about BearBait--earlier on, on the old boards, he  seemed like a really good person, just a wonderful board member-- made interesting posts, good sense of humor and just struck me as a really fine guy.  Very much an Alpha Male, but a REALLY good, down-to-earth guy, and lots of thoughtful, enjoyable posts.  We all got along with him just fine.

If anyone had bet me then  how much he would change, I'd have taken them on because I'd be sure they were nuts and would lose the bet!

But, then, POW!  He started making very cutting and ugly remarks if someone didnt completely agree with him right away.   It was like he had two personalitites--one of them is this great, thoughtful outdoor friend you would LOVE to camp with!  And the other is someone who quickly takes offense over almost nothing, gets very angry and begins attacking people (who have not attacked him first, but simply pointed out areas where they dont agree) and all of a sudden you find yourself  receiving  really unpleasant remarks from someone who has suddenly become an abusive stranger.  There is just no give and take about it at all.

That post he made about his favorite place to camp is beautiful.  It's warm and tender and poetic and real.  I LOVED reading it!

I dont expect him or anyone to always agree with whatever appears on this website but the disagreement does not have to be disrespectful or gratuitously  ugly--even hateful at times.  Sometimes we use words here in a symbolic way--as in my remark that this is a website "country club."  It was simply intended as a way of saying we had paid to belong here and we were all having  great carefree fun together.  (So to speak, sitting together  in the fancy dining room enjoying gourmet meals, having cocktails together, swimming, indulging in golf and tennis, just feeling "rich" and carefree" )  But my God, next thing I knew, BB had twisted it to mean something else entirely.  My remark about the trolls and troublemakers--before this was a paid board, they could really ruin things here in a hurry.  That made him angry too.
It is almost like he lurks here waiting for someone to make a remark he can take offense at--NOT--notice I did NOT say, "waiting for a remark he could disagree with"  He does not merely "disagree"  he actually "attacks" without ever giving someone the benefit of a doubt.  And if you dare come back at him with another point of view, each of his responses gets more angry.

So, yes, he is the "Prodigal Camper"  and just like in the Bible, I will warmly welcome him (or anyone) who wants to come and enjoy the benefits of being a part of this family. (Families dont always agree--but they dont remain a true  "family" for  long if there is abuse)  But,  I really think the point of the parable is that the wanderer was welcomed and greeted and received by those he had left behind--but it also implies that he came back willing to accept THEM as well, even with all their imperfections.  

This guy never seems to give anyone the benefit of a doubt but jumps to the conclusion that we are deliberately picking on him or putting him down or meaning the worst to him no matter what we say.  It is hard to relax with a person like that, and hard to trust  their good posts when you fear that bad ones are just around the corner.

 

Seems like whenever any of us begin patting the board--and ourselves--on the back as a safe, happy place to hang out with people, BB gets upset.  It is fine with me if he wants to point out that this is not a perfect place, but why attack people personally to make these points?

I suppose his answer to this will be "once again, NightOwl, you are trying to make the rules and control me!"  No, I do not make these "rules"  SOCIETY MAKES THEM!  They are based on common decent manners.  and we would never be having this conversation if he had continued being the person we all knew and enjoyed  in the earlier days of this board.


We can all get along and enjoy this place, but there are certain courtesies required of us if we are to trust each other.  if, after 5 months away, BearBait had come back and said "well, I'm back" and made a post based on  something positive, we'd all have been glad to see him and would have buried the past pretty  quickly, although with a certain caution.  NO ONE WOULD HAVE SAID ANYTHING HATEFUL!    As it is, he himself made his return an uneasy thing.  And saddest of all, it didnt have to be that way,  There are lots of new members here who would have loved the posts the Old BearBait made and who would have accepted him as a friend, never needing to know the unhappiness he had caused here in the past.

[NightOwl]

As for the description of BearBait as a wonderful  friend  to camp with "in person," unfortunately most of us have not had that pleasure and so we can only go by what we have seen of him  here.  We dont know what a sweet guy he can be when you actually meet him in the flesh so that claim doesnt help us  understand him at all.  In fact, it makes him even more bewildering.

 Why would anyone go to so much trouble to alienate a large group of people WHO REALLY WANT TO BE HIS FRIENDS?

[tlhdoc]

:-()  :confused:  :banghead: :Z   :swear:  :%    ?    :!