Overheating Brakes

[PopupSgt]

I figure I'd post the link to my webshots account http://community.webshots.com/user/popupsgt

Click the newest link and then check out the photos of my overheating surge brakes.  I had a heck of a time getting home from the rally with having to pull over on 3 different occassions to loosen the brake shoes via the star wheel.  I would jack up each side of the camper and loosen the brake shoe on the wheel that was overheating until I could spin the wheel freely.
I have emailed Jayco on this issue and hopefully they can figure some type of solution, this is the second time for this anomoly, the first was last October.  The camper was at the Jayco factory February this year for this issue.  I am really hoping that they change out my surge brake system to electric brakes, I believe that possibly the camper is too heavy for this type of braking system, which is always engaged going down hills.

[aw738]

After discussing it with my dad and uncle we believe your wheel cylinders are sticking. Replacing them might help along with flushin the entire system to get all the old fluid out. The fluid coming out of the master cylinder is from the heat boiling the fluid in the wheel cylinders.

[PopupSgt]

After discussing it with my dad and uncle we believe your wheel cylinders are sticking. Replacing them might help along with flushin the entire system to get all the old fluid out. The fluid coming out of the master cylinder is from the heat boiling the fluid in the wheel cylinders.

Thanks for the advice.  My camper is only a little over 1 year old and I will have Jayco take care of this issue since this has been going on since last October.  Hopefully Jayco will take care of this on going problem.  You ideas do make a lot of sense with what is going on.

[angelsmom10]

Isn't this basically the same problem you had last year?

[PopupSgt]

Isn't this basically the same problem you had last year?

Not exactly, last year the brake lines that supplied the hydraulic fluid had broken at the backing plate due to flexing stress on 3 different occassions.  

I did have the brakes overheat around Halloween last year, the camper went back to Jayco to resolve why the axles overheated & to repair my warped roof.  

This trip was similar to last October with the exception of traveling a much greater distance & having to loosen the brake shoes on 3 different occassions.

I learned enough about camper surge brakes that Jayco should hire me to rebuild and troubleshoot the darn things :Z

[tlhdoc]

Corey I am sorry to hear your trip home was another PITA.  Did you still have the problem with the break fluid?  Did you have any sway with out the sway bar?

[PopupSgt]

Corey I am sorry to hear your trip home was another PITA.  Did you still have the problem with the break fluid?  Did you have any sway with out the sway bar?

Tracy,
I still had the issue with the brake fluid, which there is a picture of the fluid leaking.  AW738 brought up a very good point that the brake fluid is boiling and this is what I am seeing from the cap.  
We did not get any sway, so it seems the setup is good w/ the exception of the darn brake problem.

[mike4947]

JMHO, but right about now I either ask Jayco/Dealer to get the Atwood & Dexter people involved or contact them myself for help. Obviously the dealer didn't get the repair correctly last year.
I have seen the problem with surge brakes before. In one case it was a defective master cylinder (Atwood) and two others were in the brakes (Dexter). One was a wheel cylinder bound up and the other was simple mechanical interference.
Looking at the picture of the master cylinder it definetely shows the fluid was boiling, so I'm betting it's at the brake itself.

[PopupSgt]

JMHO, but right about now I either ask Jayco/Dealer to get the Atwood & Dexter people involved or contact them myself for help. Obviously the dealer didn't get the repair correctly last year.
I have seen the problem with surge brakes before. In one case it was a defective master cylinder (Atwood) and two others were in the brakes (Dexter). One was a wheel cylinder bound up and the other was simple mechanical interference.
Looking at the picture of the master cylinder it definetely shows the fluid was boiling, so I'm betting it's at the brake itself.

Mike,
Thanks for the excellent advice, the camper was at the Jayco factory at February of this year for the exact same problem.  Mike IYHO could my camper be too heavy for the surge braking system?, just seems I have had nothing but problems with this type of braking system.  This system just doesn't seem to operate correctly, if it is always braking when traveling down hills then the brakes would always get hot and never have time to cool down.
I know that this system has been around for some time and many that I have talked to absolutely love this system, maybe I'm the black sheep

[mike4947]

Since they use surge brake systems on boat trailers of up to 30+ feet and of 12,000 pounds+ weight I doubt if you have added enough weight to overload the system.
If the brakes continually set when going downhill another problem can be the shock absorber (they call it a "damper") mounted under the master cylinder cover. It's designed like the ones on your car suspension to smooth out the little "bumps" and keep the brakes from dragging on slow decelerations.

[PopupSgt]

Since they use surge brake systems on boat trailers of up to 30+ feet and of 12,000 pounds+ weight I doubt if you have added enough weight to overload the system.
If the brakes continually set when going downhill another problem can be the shock absorber (they call it a "damper") mounted under the master cylinder cover. It's designed like the ones on your car suspension to smooth out the little "bumps" and keep the brakes from dragging on slow decelerations.

I checked the shock absorber at the cg with Atwood on the phone.  The absorber that they use does not put out constant pressure outward like a vehicle shock absorber, it is as you say smooth but steady pressure to push it in and out, when pressure is released it stays at that position.  After talking with Atwood they believe that the shock absorber is fine.  I have left a msg with Jayco service team #3 & also an email with pictures for them to notify me of what will be the next step of repair resolution.

[gr8grandpa]

Sorry about your problem and I thought that I had bad luck with a blow out on 295. It was a little scary changeing it that close to the travel part of the highway.

[PopupSgt]

Sorry about your problem and I thought that I had bad luck with a blow out on 295. It was a little scary changeing it that close to the travel part of the highway.

Did you have more problems on the way home?  I thought that you just had 2 new tires put on your camper in Pa. after they replaced the leaf springs?

[Firefyter-Emt]

I am curious if the first time they fixed the lines if they used the wrong DOT rated brake fluid... You may need to step up to DOT-4 or DOT-5... They may of put DOT-3 in it by mistake.. Just a thought, they have diffrent boiling points with the silicoln DOT 5 being the highest.. (but not for use with ABS) There is close to 100 degree diffrence between the boiling point of DOT-3 and DOT-5..
 
either way, go with at the very least DOT-4

[aw738]

If you don't already have DOT 5 in your system DO NOT MIX IT WITH DOT 3 OR DOT 4!!! They do not get along. If I remember correctly you can mix DOT3 and 4, but I may be wrong. At least I sell a DOT3/DOT4 brake fluid. Valvoline Synpower brand. The brakes overheating may have caused the fluid to boil out, but an upgrade of fluid shouldn't be needed. Drum brakes just shouldn't get hot enough to do that if they are working correctly. I had a spec sheet for the Synpower fluid on my laptop at one time but I must have deleted it.