It there still a work ethic? UPDATE

[GeneF]

I don't know if I am running into a string of bad luck or if this is the state of workmaship you can expect today.

1.  I just completely remodelled our living room including new insulaition and new rug.

Last two things to be done are having the rest of the carpet installed and having a door hung.

A.  Carpenter I hired did a good job except that when I called about the door, it will be at least two weeks before he can come back to hang it.

B.  The carpet was delivered but the last 12 feet of the roll was damaged so that only the living room could be done and not the stairs and hallway.  

The extra carpet was supposed to be in in two to three days but it has been over a week and no word.

When the installer installed the carpet, he gouged up 17 feet of baseboard.  When I asked him about it, his reply was, "Sorry, but did you read the contract?"  Contract states that they are not responsible for damage.  I have contacted the install company and am waiting for a reply.  Carpenter estimated $280 to repair.

The installer did a poor job of installing the carpet around some of the heat registers and had to repair a bad cut he made.

I have requested that this installer not come back to do the stairs and the hallway.

C.  I have to have a panel replaced on the fridge in the Kiwi.  When I called to make an appointment, I asked the service guy to call me when it came in. I called three weeks later and Oh Yes, it was in. So I made an appointment to have it put in.

When I got to the dealer, I asked the service guy to check it out to see if it wasn't damaged.  He said it looked fine.

Later in the afternoon, another guy from the dealership called and said the panel was damaged and it had to be reordered so the Kiwi is still at the dealers for another few days.

Just gets kind of discouraging to see this kind of service being provided today and none of the labor is cheap.

[MtnCamper]

Another thing that irks me, is they all act like I'm doing myself a big favor, by hiring them. Key word here is HIRE, They work for me, they work to my standards! If they don't, they don't work for me any longer.

I have even fired a Doctor in his own office. After explaining to him that I pay his fee, and he is in effect working for me...... I want someone else! It had to do with one of Marcia's scans for MS, and I wasn't comfortable with his dictatorship attitude toward her.

[byrdr1]

That's why I have spent just about every free minute at home putting vinyl and metal trim on my house..for the last few months..
It has taken more time than I allowed, but I know the job is done right and I can look back and say "I did THAT!"
plus I have found several bad spots that we have fixed.. Something for 15 year old house.. I have found bad water damaged wood, rotten lap siding and one rotten facia board.. All fixed.. Plus we will have "vinyl is final" house with white vinyl railing when it is all done. NO more painting only a pressure wash or two every few years.
Hope things work out for you Gene..
randy

[SpeakEasy]

I assume you've read my "story" (http://www.arveeclub.com/showthread.php?t=54227).

The Story was as much about incompetent service as it was about an accident. I took the camper back so many times that I ended up feeling like I was the problem. How do you like that?! They mess up, and I feel like I'm the problem because I'm want it done right!

I too do a lot of work myself, and I shoot for perfection. Often that means going back and re-doing and re-doing something to get it better and better. There's always a decision to make: how far do I go to make this perfect? Perfect is never possible, but, how far do I go? I want to be able to look at my finished work and not have the flaws jump out at me. I want to be able to look at what I've done and notice the quality.

I don't know if this level of commitment to quality has ever been the norm. We may be fooling ourselves if we think that it was better in "the good old days." The thing that does make it hard is that we do seem to be paying top dollar for labor these days.

I don't think I would refer to the problem as a lack of work ethic. I've observed,  for the most part, that a lot of people are willing to work hard. It's just that they don't seem to understand the concept of quality, and they don't seem to even care. Maybe it's a lack of training? Maybe we need to get back to an apprentice system where old, skilled workers instill the commitment to quality in younger ones?

[Dwayne N]

At the risk of going off on a tangent and possibly offending someone, I'll say this.  I feel in a way that we've done it to ourselves.

We live in a great country with numerous privileges, freedom and freedom of choice two of the greatest.   But then why have we become a nation of the substitute?  Few people have an original of anything anymore.  Everything, especially our homes and the things we put in them, are copies of copies of copies and we just accept that. A lot of that has to do with the fact that we can't afford it anymore.  Why can't we afford it?

When it comes to work these days, most, not all, people look at work as labor.  It's not something they want to do.  It's a chore.  It didn't use to be.

I blame our educational system for that.  There are a lot of great teachers out there that aren't allowed to teach the way they could.  Experientially.  We teach so much academics today, that few are able to actually "do" the things we used be able to.  Like...build a building by hand.  There are a lot of great buildings, built hundreds of years ago, that have burned down that we aren't capable of rebuilding today.  Where is our education, our computers, our machines now? They've taken away our abilities to do these things.

Why?  Skilled labor, some people look at as something beneath them.  When in fact, it is beyond us.  We can't do them anymore.  That's a learned trait.  If we all had our own definition of success and strived our whole lives to reach that cause that we created, I'm sure it would guarantee happiness and success for the rest of our lives.

At least that's what I put my stock in.

Sorry for the rant, but this is something I'm very passionate about and have to deal with every day on the job.  I try to teach and mentor it to my crews.

"The greatest crime of our educational system...removing us from Nature and locking us up in a city so that now we think living in a city is Natural to us."
                                                 ----- Louis Sullivan


Thanks,

Dwayne R. Nahorodny
Artist/Owner/General Contractor
//www.artistichomesolutions.com

[chasd60]

I think it is a lack of pride in workmanship. I think this directly relates how they were raised by their parents not how the education system works.
 
I have seen many pieces of work completed, almost to perfection, by people with less experience and lots of pride in their workmanship.
Too many people put their value at $$/hr. If they can't deliver a quality product fast enough to pay themselves a decent hourly rate, they are not qualified to do the work. Shortcutting to save time and get the $$/hr up is a losing game. Word of mouth wild spread about their quality and they shouldn't last too long.

[flyfisherman]

It's difficult to pin this on just one thing or two; rather, I think, the entire system has gone to pot. There was a time, in my lifetime for that matter, that work and contracts were sealed with a hand shake ... your word was your bond.  In fact, I bought my first piece of property that way that I was latter to build on. Gave the man $10.00 down and $10.00 a month and when the lot was paid for, he simply mailed me the deed to the land.

With all the flim-flam going on in higher places, little wonder why no one has any respect for society. An old timer (older than me!) that I fish with in the mountains of western North Carolina puts it this way ... "there's being politically correct and there's being Biblically right".


Fly

[chasd60]

There was a time when we followed the rules. The rules were merely to do the right thing. Many people now believe that all rules and laws are meant to be taken to the limit. Having manners used to be the number one rule. I'm not sure it is even a rule anymore.
 
 Speed limit is 65, well that must mean 74 is ok. One car length for each ten mph, that must mean one car length at any speed because they never stop anybody for it. People seem to think if there is no punishment, then it must be OK.
 
 The guy installing the rug probably felt he could get away with a little damage and be done quicker. What is a little damage? He probably has a different defininition of it than Gene does.

[GeneF]

I

C.  I have to have a panel replaced on the fridge in the Kiwi.  When I called to make an appointment, I asked the service guy to call me when it came in. I called three weeks later and Oh Yes, it was in. So I made an appointment to have it put in.

When I got to the dealer, I asked the service guy to check it out to see if it wasn't damaged.  He said it looked fine.

Later in the afternoon, another guy from the dealership called and said the panel was damaged and it had to be reordered so the Kiwi is still at the dealers for another few days.

Just gets kind of discouraging to see this kind of service being provided today and none of the labor is cheap.

Just thoght I would do an update on the Kiwi.

Panel was reordered and after about a week and a half, I called the dealer.  "Yup, it is in.  When do you want to schedule to have the panel put in.?"

My reply was that since he already had the camper there, that he get it fixed and I would pick it up on Friday.

Just got back picking up the Kiwi.  Panel was installed and looks good.

But the saga continued.  Part of the service I had done included a FREE $49.95 value trailer wash.

I asked if the trailer had been washed and was told yes.  Well I walked around a few minutes trying to find the trailer, when this service person comes up to me and says, "We are going to wash the trailer again, it still looks a little dirty."  Know what, they never had washed the trailer.

So dw moves the trailer and tv up next to anotherl trailer being washed.  Guy asked her if he was supposed to wash both vehicles.  She said, "Why not" so we got the truck washed also.

While the Kiwi was being washed, I ran into one of the owners. My first time meeting him.  We had a talk for about 45 minutes about the virtues and failures of his establshment.  He did promise to try to do better in the future to win me back as a satisfied customer.  I can't say that he really apologized but did say several times that they are trying to work to make things better.

[SkipP]

Great thread Gene. Glad you talked to the owner, I'm sure he's as frustrated as you at times!

With the way things are today, we may as well remove the phrase; "pride-in-workmanship" and the word; "craftsmanship" and place them in the same box as Latin...the dead/dormant box!
 
I can't see this lasting forever though, rather it's a cycle where we place greater value on speed and the "gotta have it now" mentality than the "do it right the first time" thinking. Hope so anyway.

[GeneF]

Bummer

DW just said that I should look at the new panel they installed.  Ooops, one section is pulling away.  Looks like some of the staples let go and about 8 inches of the panel is about 1/4 inch out from where it should be.

To cover myself, I plan on calling the dealer and letting him know about the problem so he can note it in the records but I will put in a couple of staples myself.  Not worth towing for an hour for a two second fix.

In fairness, when I checked the work at the dealership, it looked fine.  I guess towing the Kiwi must have put some stress on that panel and it popped again.

[GeneF]

Post deleted

[chasd60]

I think some of the Trail-Lite TT's had similar problem. In their case it seems the framework that supports the refrigerator is just to flimsy. There have been people that reinforced the framework and got rid of the problem. Not sure if your problem is the same but it does sound like it is stress related.

[GeneF]

Update on Carpet

Rest of carpet was installed on the stairs and the hallway by a different installer.

New installer said the damage done to the baseboards was not normal.

He contacted the install head guy and they are supposed to be contacting me to arrange for someone to come in and repair the damage to the baseboards.

Update on fridge panel.

I contacted my dealer and asked if I could put a couple of nails in to hold the panel.  He said he would have to check on it.

He called me back on another matter but hadn't checked out whether I could put the nails in myself or not.  He is supposed to get back to me.

I don't want to put the nails in without his permission.  I don't wan't to mess up the warrantee on this item.  The warrantee bill for replacing the panel was $233 which Jayco covered.

[Old Goat]

Gene, Try some duct tape instead of using nails........