my station wagon and palomino fold a wall

[brianradomski]

JUST  joined this  is  my  1st post.  what  kind  of  experience  is  out  there  with  towing  with  OLD  station  wagons?  By  about  June  of  this  2005  i  wound  up  with  a  1982  ford  country  squire  302 engine with  an automatic overdrive. At only  70,000 miles  its  a  joy  to  drive. Since  it  came  along  the  decision  got  made  to  find  a  pop  up.  what  a  coincidence:  a  1982  palomino  fold a wall  came  through.  I  have  equipped  the  wagon  with  a  transmission  cooler  ironically  I  am  so  concerned  for  my  engine  and  transmission. What  kind  of  weight  can  the  camper  be?  what  kind  of  capacity  can  the  wagon  tow?  neither  have  owners  manuals  but  I  figure  that any  v-8 should  tow  a  pop  up, I  am  finding  out  that  in line sixes and  v-sixes  are  flying  down  highways  with  pop  ups  in  tow.  people  i know  have  told  me  and  have  seen  such  for  myself......ironically  I  worry  anyway!  THANK  YOU  EVERYBODY!

[copcarguy]

Hello and welcome to PUT!

I've had several Crown Vic's...  (all of them were not wagons though), but set up properly (trailer tow option and/or police package) up to the 1991 model year they could tow 5000 pounds.  Adding a tranny cooler to yours was a great addition - but this lets you know that your wagon does not have the trailer towing pkg.  All of mine have sagged with a trailer in tow, and I added a set of Monroe Load-Leveler shocks and that cured that problem.
 
http://www.shockwarehouse.com/cgi-bin/shocks/mon_loadlevel.html
 
I hope this helped!

[brainpause]

Welcome to PUT!

The load leveler shocks are a good idea, or there are air bags for the rear end that are also adjustable. The Monroes are automatic.

Yes, you see many 4 and 6 cylinders flying down the road with popups. But they may be overloaded, or they may be properly equipped.

If I had a Corvette with a 350ci engine in it, I still wouldn't put a trailer behind it, because its chassis is not designed for pulling a load. However, my 4x4 truck and its four cylinder are rated for 3500 pounds! So, you see, the engine isn't the only part of the equation.

Your Pal fold-a-wall probably weighs no more than 2500# loaded. How long is the box?

Larry

[tlhdoc]

Check with a Ford or a Ford dealer (have the vin handy).  They will be able to tell you what the wagon is rated to tow.  Good luck with the PU.

[brianradomski]

only  me  what  a laugh, I only  recall  I  got  into  a  pop  up  forum  couldnt  recall  the  name  have  tried  all  day  i  finally  got  back  WHEW, now  to  uhm:  "he  rescues police  cars", then Larry  and  Holly the  newlyweds,  then Tracy  and  the  gang  Pa.:  I'm  SO  grateful  to  you  all  for  your  replies  here!
       In addition  to the  trans  cooler i  also  added  an innovation  to  the  cooling. I  just  DO NOT  care  for  thermal  clutches  on  the  cooling  fan.  I  recall  and  "LOVE"  the  fan  bolted  right  to  the  coolant  pump  for  POWER COOLING.  What  good  is a trans  cooler  without  a  power  cooler.  So  I  stuck bolts  into  that  thermal  clutch  that  locked  the  fan.  There  is  a  controversy  that  power is lost  from  the  engine  However  many  also  agree  that  i  AM  cooling  everything......."perfectly"  now.
        So  my  old  "squire"  with its  302, a trans  cooler,  and  a  power  fan  to  insure  cooling is really  all  I  need  I  love  the  idea  of  bringing  the  wagons  VIN  to  a  dealership  to  get  the  weight  specs.
          Oh  I  did  measure  the  longest  and  widest  points  of  the  box  of  the  pop up:  does  it  sound  right  that  i  got  12 feet  6 inches  long  by  6 feet 6  inches  wide?  Sadly  since  my  finances  are  more  than  maxed  out  jeopardising  any  kind  of  get  away  this  year,  there  is  nothing  i  can  do  bout  SAG  in  the  rear  once  i  get  in  tow.  The  sag  in  the  rear  BETTER  not  adversally  effect  my  driving, I  have  seen  vehicles  low  in  the  rear  but  still  moving  right  along.
        REPLY  PLEASE  KEEP  IN  CONTACT!

[Miller Tyme]

Are we talking 12 ft. 6 in. from tip of the tongue to the rear bumper? If so, you probably have a 10 ft. box, aka a CXL/SXL(Palomino "brands" their hard-walls by the model name's first initial then with XL, example, CXL=Colt XL, or SXL=Stallion XL). The specs vary from year to year, based on model.
 
 My MXL (Mustang XL) has the 12 ft. box, while the whole rig tip to rear is about 15 ft. GVWR on it is 2000 lbs, but with all the junk I carry, I'm at about 2300.
 
 IIRC, your C.S. is one of those old boxy looking beasts, not one of the Fairmont based "mid-sized" wagons. You should have no problems towing one of the Pals, but as far as "sag" in the back end(IIRC, those C.S.'s have a long tail-end overhang) maybe go with gas-charged shocks. Don't go with air-shocks, those are intended for internal loads, not towing.

[brianradomski]

THANK  YOU  for  the  reply,  I  am getting  my  knowledge  here  it  is  totally  exciting  however  what  is  IIRC?  It seems  to  appear  with  c.s.  which i  assume  means  country  squire  (my  station wagon).
                     WHAT  IS  IIRC  PLEASE?

[Tim5055]

WHAT  IS  IIRC  PLEASE?

Brian check out the following page:


Message Board Shorthand

[brianradomski]

Got  caught  up  working  on  the  directions  from  tom 5055  about  the  "message board short hand"  dont  i  just  sit  corrected.
         Anyway  sir (miller  tyme) regretfully  I  am  embarased  enough  that  i  am  too  new  at  any of  this  to  do  things  with  presicion  perfection. I  just  plain  and  simply  didnt  know  how  to  measure  properly.  I  measured  my  palomino  CLOSED  and  ONLY  the  "box"  I  never  knew  to  include from  the  tongue (where  the  gas  tank  sits  and  the  ball  housing)  straight  back  to  its  rear  "bumper".  So  the  12feet  six  inches  is  JUST  the  box  sir.
        Very  exciting  for  me  that  you  are  knowledged in  palominos.  Mine  being  older   well  all  that  can  be  seen  from  out  side  is  "palomino  XL"  there  is little  determining  i  suppose  weather  or  not  mine  is  a  mustang  a  colt   yearling  etc.  If  I  examined  the  power  cable  line  then probably  the  amp  rateing  would  be  printed  on  that  cable?  SAD  it  is  larked  nearly  an  hour  from  here. Do  I  give  you  any  better  info  sir?  THANK  YOU. In  fact  from  the  palomino  website  I  thought  I  had  it  to  understand  that  only  ONE  model  of  the  palomino  pop  up  was  a  fold  a  wall.  WHOA  SIR   since  you  might  perhaps  be an  authority  on  the  fold  a  wall  since  I  am  desperate  to  maintain  the  backs  of  both  my  lady  Kim  and  i, well  i  know  to  park  the  camper  LEVEL  but  .....I  have  designed  a  jack  to  fit  inside  and  press  upward  on  the  roof  till  the  spring  loaded  arms  garb  it?      THANK  YOU!

[Miller Tyme]

No problem, Brian. I just measured my Pal, and sure enough, it's box-only length is 12'6". So that would make yours an MXL, just like mine.
 
 My power cord has the following info on it--E67955  14  3  Type STW  A  For Recreational Vehicles  15 Amp  ---so yours is probably the same.
 
 Yes currently Palomino only makes the Mustang XL fold-a-wall(14ft), but as I said, in the past, they built fold-a-walls for all of their models---8ft(CXL), 10ft(SXL), 12ft(MXL) and 14 ft(TXL).
 
 As far as the lift arms, you may want to replace the springs. The springs do most of the lifting. If you contact Vanguard Ind.(builders of Palomino) they can help you. The replacement springs run about $25 each(you need all four), and are a do-it-yourself project if you're handy with tools. Several members of this board and other camping message boards have contacted me about the repair, and it can be done by yourself.
 
 Here's the link to Palomino---www.palominorv.com
 
 HTH(hope that helps!):!

[brianradomski]

Somehow  i  want beer. I really  do, the  question is: do  i  want  beer so  much  or  do  i  want  so  much  beer? And  will I  have  fun  when I  learn how  to  use  those  action  faces!!
      Anyway Mr. Miller Tyme, you  ended  with  "hope  that  helps".  You  help  far  more  than  you  know  you  are  provoking  more  questions  from me so  hopefully  you  and  everybody  will  be  patient.  my  intention  is  NOT  to  abuse  this  forum  hopefully  it  can  be  realised  that  this  forum  at  least  right  now  for  me is  doing its  job: educating and  helping.
       Sir  do  you  use  your  MXL  enough  to  know  how  exactly  the  surge  brakes  work,  do  they  work  well?  Asside  from  insuring  there  is  brake  fluid  in  the  cylinder  is  there  anything  else? A  Ford  dealership  assured  me  that  I  should  be  able  to  roll  along  at  65 or  70  mph......isnt  that  reassuring  but  with  only  hydraulic  surge  brakes  how  do  I  stop  the  whole  rig? I  am willing  to  drive  50  the  whole  way (even  to  FL.)  but  boy  that  slow  and  I  will  only  have  a  week's  vacation.
         Yes  my  wagon  is  a  full  size  boxy  thing, handsome  enough,  i  think  it  rather  regal looking, I  think  its  styled  rather  well. I  dont  think its  too  much  of  just  an  ugly  old.
        How  much  are  we  allowed  to  talk, I'm  not  obsessive  compulsive  but  I  do  want to  tow  as  safe  and  proper  as possible  THANK  YOU  AS  ALWAYS!!!

[Miller Tyme]

Well since you bring up beer, here's a few more..:!:!:!:!
 
 When you type your reply, on the second line to the left of the scissors icon, there is a smilie face. Click on it, and it gives you a bunch of "emoticons", as they're called.
 
 As far as the surge brakes--they work like auto drum brakes. As you slow down the tow vehicle, a lever in the trailer tongue puts pressure on the master cylinder mounted on the tongue, forcing brake fluid to the wheel cylinders, which activate the brake pads to contact the drum.. As your Pal is older, it may be wise to have an RV tech, mechanic or someone good with brakes check out your pads. And, while you're at it, you should re-pack your wheel bearings. Most older pop-ups are equipped with surge brakes, especially older Pals and Jaycos. Electric brakes back then were an option, where-as today most if not all pop-ups come with electric brakes.
 
 Keep the questions coming...I've got lots of beer!:!

[brianradomski]

Rather  than take time  off  from  my  job  to  phone  up  to  Michigan (which I've done already)  to  vanguard  Industries who  manufactures  the  PALOMINO  CAMPER  It  is  thus  far  more  parctical  to  get  info.  i  seek  here.
       Of  course  too  another  alternative  is  to  just  get  over  my  inconfidence  risk  the  station  wagon  and  just  give  the  old  MXL  a  trial  run  or  so. Meant  no  harm.

[brianradomski]

I'd  certainly make a call to the  palomino  line  camper  as  I  have  dome  in  the  past  but  there  is  no  calling  them  from  my  job  I  need  to  take  off  time  from  my  job. If  patient  souls  would  please just  bare  with  me  a little  longer.
         What ever  info  I  can  get  before I  actually  get  in  tow  will  hopefully  prevent  any  damage  or  incidents. Thank  you

[lastwgn]

Towing a pop-up with your wagon is not a problem at all.  I tow a 2001 Coleman Sea Pine with a 1991 Mercury Colony Park with the 302 V-8.  Mine has fuel injection, which is a big improvement from the carbureted version.  Probably the biggest impact on towing will be the rear axle ratio.  The factory trailer towing package included a 3.27 rear axle ratio.  My car has a 3.08, which is adequate, but not great.  Some of these cars might also have a 2.73.  That is geared toward gas mileage at freeway speeds at the sacrifice of low end power.  The factory tow package also included a heavy duty battery and alternator as well as dual exhausts.  I had the dual exhaust put on at a local Midas dealer.

As suggested by others, I have outfit the rear with Monroe load lever shocks.  I also had brand new springs installed front and rear, put performance Bilstein shocks up front, and an Addco sway bar in the rear.  I have never towed longer than 180 miles, and usually only 50 miles, so I have skipped the transmission cooler for now, in favor of frequent fluid flushes.  We are thinking of a slightly larger pop-up next year, at which point I plan to add the transmission cooler and perhaps a set of air lift 1000 air bags inside the rear coil springs.  I am also thinking of new rear gears as well.  

However, the greatest addition to the car is a set of Keystone Klassic chrome rims, circa 1970's, that upgrade the appearance of the car immensely.  Mine is a light crystal blue metallic color, and is in showroom new condition, inside and out.  As soon at the Keystone wheels went on, the car began to turn heads wherever it goes, particularly at the campground.  I have it polished so well that you can literally read a newpaper from its reflection on the hood.  I have also polished the wood veneer to a high gloss as well.  These cars are unique, and stand out in a world of me too SUV's.