Pop Up Sales down down down

[AustinBoston]

I think there might be one other factor, and that's tow vehicles.  There are precious few family vehicles capable of towing even a medium-sized pop-up.  With Chevy recently ending the S-10 and the Astro/Safari, there are even fewer.  Couple that with higher and higher weights, and today's pop-up buyer has some tough choices to make.

This decline in towing capacity has been going on for decades.  I remember my father towing my uncle's pop-up back in the 1970's with his 1966 Mercury Park Lane.  I'd bet that car would have out-towed every minivan on the market today.  All that, and a rear window that opened, too!

If you had to pay $xx,000 for a tow vehicle anyway, wouldn't you just go a bit further and buy the hybrid or travel trailer?

Austin

[Used 2B PopUPTimes]

last week I listened to a campground owner complain about  decreased occupancy this past year.  She said she had to raise rates to cover the expense of converting several loops to 50amp service.

[GeneF]

Not sure if it is just due to the lower interest in popups that campgrounds have decreased occupancy this year.

We talked to a couple of campground owners on our trip and they also mentioned lower occupancy but many of their cancellations were due to the hurricanes.  One owner said he was down $9000 in September of this year verses last year.  He blamed the weather and the price of gasoline.  This was out in Tennessee.

We did see a lot of popups on this trip but not as many as we would have expected.  It could be that we were travelling in Sept and Oct when kids are back in school.  There are plenty of tt's out there and the big Class A's.

[beacher]

Actually, according to that website, Class A sales are down 13.2% from 2004.

At the RVIA show in Pomona last month the only people actually selling were the Toyhauler folks.  Thousands of TTs were built for hurricane victims and are counted in that 18.8% increase number since last year.

Since 2004 when I purchased my PU, I always get asked at gas stations and campsites, "what is that"?  Alot of people simply do not know that PUPs exist!  I know it's hard to believe being on this message board.  When people realize that it Pops Up and slides open, they say, "WOW, is that a new thing"?

I know that in Southern California you never see commercials or advertisements promoting PopUp campers!  The only reason I know about them is because my father had one when I was a kid!  The only reason he originally had one is because someone "paid" him with it back in the 70's, (he owned a service station).

People think nothing of spending $30,000 for a small to mid-size car these days, $15,000 for a small camper is "chump change" for many.  The real issue is that there is simply NO promotion and marketing for PopUps.

[GrizzlyTaco]

I agree with Beacher, alot of people dont even know what a PU is. The reason i know about them is alot of my family in Wisconsin have them. Since I've had mine for (for about 2 months now) i've had to take pics to work to show my friends. They cant believe whats all inside. They all thought it was just a tent. I think RV dealers should advertise the PU's to get sales up and let people know just how affordable and fun they are. We can afford a big RV, but with a PU you get alot in a small package. For me storage isn't a problem, mine is just under 17 ft. long closed and fits perfectly in my garage..........       :sombraro:

[ilovecamping]

I would say it could be also that you can buy a good used pup for a reasonable price.  I know we had two used pups that we spent a lot of years in before we bought the new one.  We have since traded for a HTT but I think that is more to do with the fact that our children are grown and we aren't getting any younger, so we just wanted more storage that you didn't have to crawl to get into and a frig of the same.  We loved our pups but for DH's health we decided to move over.

[SkipP]

I'm sure there are a whole host of reasons for the declining sales. Another possibility is the low interest rates we've enjoyed for the past several years. Even though they are creeping back up now, the rates have allowed shoppers who were considering a lesser car/home/RV to go bigger and more expensive.

 
I guess time will tell if it's a cyclical phenomenon or a permenent decline.

[Gone-Camping]

PU sales have actually been dropping for some time. PUT Mag edior Bob Zagami had mentioned to me several times over the last couple of years that the numbers were dropping. This is not a new trend, just the numbers are getting larger!
 
(Bob...you can chime in here anytime now!!)

[meriflower1985]

Well with rising gas and interest rates - the pop up might make a comeback!       We downsized to a smaller TV and went from a TT to a popup and one of the deciding factors is because we got tired paying $$$ at the pump for the full size TV needed to tow the TT.  I don't think gas prices are going to get any better either.  

I wonder if pop up sales continue to decline and not be profitable for the manufacturers, if some will decide not to make them anymore?

Nancy

[Zagami]

The responses have been great to Dave's original posting on this topic.  All of you are right in one way or the other.  While the numbers don't lie, many of you are correct in pointing out that the industry doesn't advertise pop-ups, the dealers don't stock them, and the sales reps don't sell them!
 
This type of RV carries a high cost to manufacture and a lower per unit percentage of profit, so they don't have as much money to work with and invest in marketing and sales intiatives to promote this type of RV.
 
There is no question that the industry was impacted this year by the higher gas prices and increased cost of private campgrounds and our state/national park systems.
 
Motorhomes suffered the largest impact with sales down 15.7% through September.  The only motorized segment that increased was the Class B motorhomes and they were up 5.3% but there were only 2,000 sold through Semptember .... nationwide!
 
Class C motorhomes are down 9.0% through September.
 
Travel trailers are up this year ... 16.9% through September, but fifth-wheels are down 4.6% and folding campers are down 6.1% with only 26,200 units sold.  That's about 3,000 pop-ups a month for the entire country!
 
I agree with those who are concerned that pop-ups are more often above $10,000 than below $10,000!  At that price, it is very easy to cross over to a hybrid or conventional travel trailer.   One can not deny that many of the hybrids, ultralight and lightweight travel trailers are capable of being towed by conventional vehicles and smaller SUV's and pick-ups ... so it is easy to pass by the pop-ups and get something that is just as easy to tow, requires less time to set up upon arrival, and hasn't really hurt you in the wallet.
 
It is disappointing to see a large number of RV dealers with NO pop-ups on their lot ... not a single unit.  For many dealers and sales reps, they are just not worth the hassle so they eliminate them from their marketing and sales initiatives.
 
I firmly believe that a dealer that concentrated on pop-ups could do very well, even if that was all they sold.  They would be the talk of the town and could give the time and attention to detail and their prospects to answer all their questions and sell a lot of units.  
 
As many of you pointed out, pop-ups may be the best kept secret in the RV industry.  However, the odds of changing the downward trends are very slim because of the many negative factors working against success in this segment of the marketplace.  
 
To reverse this trend we would need an incredible education and marketing campaign by everyone from campground owners to large mega-dealers that would need to embrace the initiative and work very hard to reverse the downward spiral that could eventually lead to the demise of this product segment in our industry.
 
That would be a very sad day for all RV'ers because, for many of us, that is where our best RV experiences and stories are fondly remembered, regardless of what we drive or camp in today.  
 
As sales continue to drop, the costs will continue to rise, and prices will continue to increase ... it is not a pretty picture, but it is something that the entire industry is responsible for and very few people are going to fight against odds that they feel are overwhelming, and when they have many other options to turn to with hybrids, ultralights, and lightweight travel trailers.
 
The facts are real, the numbers are real ... through September there was a total of 297,7000 towables and motorhomes shipped from the factories to the dealers sales lots ... only 8.8% of them were folding campers!  That number will probably be closer to 7.5% by the time we have the year-end numbers, given current trends, the build up of FEMA trailers, and the general industry slow down.
 
My gut feeling is that we don't have enough people in the industry (manufacturers, suppliers and dealers) who are willing to wage all out war to reverse these trends and prevent further erosion that will threaten the very existence of such a great RV idea!

[AustinBoston]

I don't believe the pop-up is as doomed as it seems.  If the big players start to pull out, there will be people who might not currently manufacture pop-ups (or any other trailer) who will start to fill certain nitches.

One of the things such manufacturers might do is cut amenities out - something the big boys with the big marketing brains won't do.  But if you start with a $10K pop-up weighing 2,500 lbs., drop the fridge, hot water heater, a/c, porta-potti, shower, cold water tank, water pump, sink, and slide-out, (plus the complexities of installing all those things), you have a $4,000 pop-up that weighs 1,900 lbs.  It will be easier to manufacture, have much lower waranty claims, require smaller and cheaper axles, brakes, tires, and hitch, etc.

Who makes a pop-up like that?  Nobody.

Austin

[Tim5055]

I firmly believe that a dealer that concentrated on pop-ups could do very well, even if that was all they sold.  They would be the talk of the town and could give the time and attention to detail and their prospects to answer all their questions and sell a lot of units.  
 

I think the prime example of this is Peco Campers in Atlanta.  While not an exclusive pop up dealer by any means, they are willing to both promote and stock pop ups.

The day I went to pick up mine i was about forth in line waiting to pick up a new pop up.  They had folks from 4 southeastern states waiting to pick them up.  Peco is a no haggle dealer, the price you see is what you pay.  But, it is a fair price and they have them on the lot to look at!

We need more dealers who are willing to promote pop ups!

[meriflower1985]

Pop ups are doomed!  Gee, my pop up might become a collector item!  

[SkipP]

I'd be interested in knowing what impact the Fleetwood/Coleman/Coachman debacle had on the industry. There had to be some effect. There must be a little money in pop-up's...or you wouldn't have witnessed the war that they waged!

Like Tim, my pop-up dealer (Hawley's in Fayetteville, NC) took the time and effort to sell us a pop-up. They didn't try and steer us in a direction we weren't interested in nor did they back away from comparing pop-up's with other campers...pro and con. It was appreciated.

[brainpause]

The general decline may affect sales in the future. If dealers are moving fewer units, they might be less willing to haggle, which may drive away potential buyers. We are planning to buy a fifth wheel in the next couple of years, and if they don't meet our cash price, we will just have to walk. No financing for us.

Larry