Newbie needs advice on BRAKES . . .

[RCA]

Yes, several people here have done the job themselves.

Austin

Yes, I've heard that a brake install is not so very difficult.  However, both the dealer and the Jayco customer service rep tell me that on our 8' model (the 806), putting on brakes would require switching out the axle, which sounds prohibitively expensive.  Is this bunk?  Are there universal kits available which would work?

[ScoobyDoo]

Changing axle is not hard or expensive. Look under your trailer, if you have a steel plate on the axle just inside the hubs you add backing plates and drums.
  I have ran trucks in the K.C area for over 30 years. (Mostly over GVWR, have told drivers to load it like a boxcar, drive it like a stock car.)  Within a month of buying my PUP I spent the money to put brakes on it. The cost of the brakes was less than the cost of a front bumper.

[wavery]

I suppose that it is possible that they build a trailer axle that has no place to bolt the brake backing plates. I find that hard to understand. It seems that it would be more expensive to build a separate axle that will not accommodate brakes than to just build one axle and put the same axles on every trailer.

That trailer is under 1500#. I just can't imagine that you would have a problem towing that thing in most environments. I would just take it slow and easy on long grades. If you feel the brakes starting to get hard, I would find a place to pull of and take a ""brake-break" :p .

I don't know if you have ever experienced brake fade. Once the brakes reach a certain temperature, they get hard and the material on the brake lining become like glass. Then you have glass against steel for braking instead on a soft, fibrous material. Once you reach that stage, the brakes are totally useless and the harder you push on the pedal, the hotter and more glazed the brakes become.

There are other things that you can do for your TV to help prevent brake fade. I had to do it to mine because I have far exceeded my weight limit . I installed ceramic disc brake pads and vented disk brake rotors:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyota-Camry-V6-Sienna-Drilled-Brembo-Brake-Rotors-F_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33564QQitemZ8048382283QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
They are designed for racing but I have found them to be quite effective for towing. The vented rotors do a great job of dissipating heat and reducing the possibility of brake fade. You might want to look into that as an alternative. The ceramic pads are a bit controversial for towing purposes. Do your own research. You may find that metallic pads are quite adequate.

[Billy Bob]

So after being away for a while from this post I see FINALLY some of you have excepted the fact that boat trailers in NYS don't need trailer brakes over 1000 lbs. That's good because we can better exchange between ourselves if and when someone is misinformed admitts to it. That being said I will be the first to admitt I am wrong when I am, but I don't think that has ever happened - HA HA HA HA (just kidding)

Here's another thought when someone says just because it is legal in NYS you can't do that in CA. The state of California has MUCH stricter EPA laws governing automobiles for emissions but I can still drive in their state with any car from another state that doesn't require all the additional emission controls. Also some states are more strict on Safety Inspections that other states but I can still travel their roads with my clunker if it passes my states inspections. Something to think about.

Bottom line, buy a PU trailer with brakes.

[wavery]

Here's another thought when someone says just because it is legal in NYS you can't do that in CA. The state of California has MUCH stricter EPA laws governing automobiles for emissions but I can still drive in their state with any car from another state that doesn't require all the additional emission controls. Also some states are more strict on Safety Inspections that other states but I can still travel their roads with my clunker if it passes my states inspections. Something to think about.

Bottom line, buy a PU trailer with brakes.

Billy Bob,

There's a big difference here. Emission standards and safety inspections have to do with the registering of the vehicle in any particular state. It has nothing to do with driving the vehicle on the road. Weight limits have to do with operating a vehicle on that state's highways and has nothing to do with registering the vehicle. Two completely different issues.

California has no safety inspection for registering automobiles. However, if I drive my car in NY and it has a burned out tail light or cracked w/s, I may be sighted. If you drive your "Clunker" on any states roads and it is in violation of the law pertaining to the operation of a motor vehicle on that states highways, you are in violation of the law and may be sighted. I once purchased a beater in Maryland. I had to repair all of the rust issues on the car before they would pass my safety inspection for registration. However, when I look around in Maryland a lot of cars are falling apart from rust. The point is, just because they force certain issues for registration doesn't necessarily mean that they enforce them on the road and visa-versa.

BTW, California EPA standards are now lower than NY . Not that that is a good thing.

[RCA]

Changing axle is not hard or expensive. Look under your trailer, if you have a steel plate on the axle just inside the hubs you add backing plates and drums.
  I have ran trucks in the K.C area for over 30 years. (Mostly over GVWR, have told drivers to load it like a boxcar, drive it like a stock car.)  Within a month of buying my PUP I spent the money to put brakes on it. The cost of the brakes was less than the cost of a front bumper.

Scooby Doo, do you have a place in the KC area that you like for service?  I'll have to sniff around on getting the brake install done.  We purchased the PU at Trailside RV in Oak Grove...  good buying experience and their service dept seems very good but I'd like some other input.
Thanks also to Waverly for the info on brake fade.  Everyone has been so nice ! ! !  Like I said, this forum has been a wealth of information for us.
Hopefully we'll take our PU on its maiden voyage this weekend to Lake of the Ozarks, if I can convince my city-boy DH that a little nighttime cold weather isn't going to hurt him (the PU has a furnace, for cryin' out loud).  Enough of a drive to get more familiar with the towing but still close to home.

[ScoobyDoo]

Can't help you on where to take  it to get the work, I do my own. I got the parts AA Wheel in N KC but I bought the parts for my PUP the same day I spent a couple of grand on parts for the work trucks. If you are just buying the brakes for one little traler you might do better at Croft on Truman rd. Good luck.

[Steve-o-bud]

I think one point may have been missed in this discussion.
 
Having trailer brakes is more than just adding stopping power and reducing braking distances.
 
It also helps keep you in control in emergency (panic) breaking situations, especially in low traction condtions like heavy rain, snow, ice, etc.
 
The last thing you want in such circumstances is a trailer that weighs a significant fraction of you tow vehicle weight, pushing you around under heavy braking. This is what causes jackknifeing (sp).

[RCA]

I think one point may have been missed in this discussion.
 
Having trailer brakes is more than just adding stopping power and reducing braking distances.
 
It also helps keep you in control in emergency (panic) breaking situations, especially in low traction condtions like heavy rain, snow, ice, etc.
 
The last thing you want in such circumstances is a trailer that weighs a significant fraction of you tow vehicle weight, pushing you around under heavy braking. This is what causes jackknifeing (sp).

Thanks again, one and all for your caring input.

I am happy to report that the brake install will take place this week (at Croft Trailer on Truman - thanks for the suggestion, Scooby Doo).  While my unofficial web-and-telephone surveys did yield some opinions that going without would be OK in our situation,  we defer to the expertise on this board and will err on the side of safety.

A bit of $$$ that will buy a LOT of peace of mind.  I feel much better now.

[Kavoom]

Hi KCers...  I'm from Topeka and had brakes put on my flagstaff 8 box at purchase $320 at nationwide RV in Grain Valley.  They had to use a 12 box axle as the 8 and 10 box axles don't have the "flanges" to put brakes on. They are a Forest River PUP dealer so I

>>Incidentally, the law in our home state of Kansas dictates that brakes are not required on trailers pulling 2000 lbs or less. Seems to me that's broadly stated... that much should be contingent on what you're towing with. Thoughts?<<

I found out why...  A small trailer is about the only thing related to vehicles that is inexpensive in Kansas.  I asked a state trooper at the DMV on trailers and he said, hey you don't even need a plate under 8K but he recommended registering it anyway if I traveled out of state as the other states troopers will pull you over and a plate (not one of the under 2k plates for five bucks) will prevent that.  He had a sense of humor and noted it was a royal pain getting stopped every few hundred miles and having to explain Kansas laws to another state's troopers.  He had actually gotten calls from people on the road and it only costs 18 bucks or so to register.  

Back to why small trailers don't have virtually any regulation is that this is a farming state and there are so many small trailers out there that the farmers don't want to pay anything on or do anything to, so we puppers get off easy...

[RCA]

Back to why small trailers don't have virtually any regulation is that this is a farming state and there are so many small trailers out there that the farmers don't want to pay anything on or do anything to, so we puppers get off easy...[/QUOTE]


This makes sense.  When I called the DMV I learned that yes, no registration is at all necessary under 2000 lbs in-state, however if we planned on taking it out of state it would HAVE to be registered, so we did and have the full sized plate.  Yes, the registration was only 18 bucks but we also got royally scr*wed paying the sales tax.

Death and taxes...

Back to brakes, Croft tells us that they can refit a 10-ft axle if necessary to fit our 8 foot box.  I imagine that's what you had done?  Has it worked well for you?