Tow ratings are stupid

[mccheez]

LOL ~ lucky wife!  or is it lucky you?    

okay ~ if I plug my van numbers into this equation I still come out lower than the tow rating.

Hey Wayne ~ maybe I'm missing something too.   :confused:

That's my entire point - that tow ratings are stupid - because they are always higher than GCWR less your towing vehicle's loaded weight.  Therefore, the maximum you can actually tow is always (in every case I have seen in looking to purchase a new tv) less than the "tow rating."

There seems to be some confusion, so I will explain one more time.

Every vehicle has a GCWR.  That's the maximum weight your fully-loaded car and fully-loaded trailer are permitted to weigh, per the manufacturer, while you are towing.

Every towing vehicle has a fully loaded weight.  They all weigh something on a scale.

Every trailer has a fully loaded weight.  On a scale, they weigh something.

The actual weight you can tow is your towing vehicle's GCWR minus the towing vehicle's loaded weight.  Anything higher causes you to exceed your GCWR.

This amount (GCWR minus the towing vehicle's (fully loaded) weight) is always higher than the tow rating, so why have a tow rating?

Someone answered this rather well - saying if you tore out all your seats from your towing vehicle and had a horse jockey drive it, you might get to the point where (GCWR minus vehicle weight) is higher than tow capacity.  

But in practice, it won't ever happen.  So don't think your towing capacity is the vehicle's towing capacity as quoted.  It is actually GCWR minus your tv's loaded weight.

[Kelly]

This amount (GCWR minus the towing vehicle's (fully loaded) weight) is always higher than the tow rating, so why have a tow rating?

You missed my point .... when I use the numbers I have for my van ... my GCWR minus the TV weight is less than the tow rating ~ by almost 300 lbs.

[wavery]

OK...OK...  :eyecrazy:

I gotcha now :p . I was getting all confused by your definitions and didn't quite get the theory of your complaint.

I do agree, the tow ratings seem to be irrelevant when they throw in the GCWR. However, all of those ratings change as equipment is added. I suppose that there is a valid reason for each rating but when the consumer looks at any one particular package, the tow rating may be overstated past the GCWR.  

I suppose that it is up to the individual to make sure that they do not exceed any of the MAXIMUM ratings. I guess I really don't have the right to make that statement because I do exceed them every time I tow. However, being aware of that fact sure makes me drive a lot more carefully than a lot of people I see.

This last weekend, I was driving back from San Simeon (240 miles). I set my cruise on 58 and I had a LOT of people towing VERY large trailers pass me doing 70-75MPH. I just wonder who was the worst offender, me with my over loaded vehicle doing (roughly) the speed limit or those guys towing 8,000lb rigs that they could NEVER stop at the speed they were traveling. In fact, I never passed another vehicle towing an RV in the entire trip (except climbing hills).

I think the bottom line is that we are all responsible for safety on the highway and the buck stops at the driver .

[mccheez]

You missed my point .... when I use the numbers I have for my van ... my GCWR minus the TV weight is less than the tow rating ~ by almost 300 lbs.

I misspoke - I meant that GCWR minus your vehicle weight is always LESS than the tow rating, so why have a tow rating.

[wavery]

I am using the company van at the moment. It's a 2000 Chevy Astro van. Just for kicks, I just went down and checked the specs on it.

GVWR= 5,600#
Max trailer weight= 5,500#
GCVR=11,100#

Right on the money. May be a coincidence but that's what it says.

[dthurk]

LOL ~ lucky wife!  or is it lucky you?    

 

I wouldn't go camping without her!  Or, if i had to go without her, my day could not be sunny.

[Old Goat]

Hey Wayne, Maybe some day someone will figure out how to put an LWL and plimsol marks on tow vehicles. Would really simplify things and only take a glance to see if she's overloaded  or not.....whadaya think?....

[wavery]

Hey Wayne, Maybe some day someone will figure out how to put an LWL and plimsol marks on tow vehicles. Would really simplify things and only take a glance to see if she's overloaded  or not.....whadaya think?....

I don't dare reply on that one. I've raised my water-line too many times :p .................but I've added a few bilge pumps to compensate.

[Old Goat]

I don't dare reply on that one. I've raised my water-line too many times :p .................but I've added a few bilge pumps to compensate.

Me too...

[zamboni]

For those who live in California, there are lots of free scales.  Here is a list of (maybe not all) Public Truck Scales in CA:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/trucks/trucksize/publicscales/

There is one near me in Sacramento, Sims Metal (vehicle recycling center), and they're free.  Huge scale - could hold an 18-wheeler.  You drive on it, and a large digital display at the end shows the weight.

So, I drove up - put my front 2 wheels on.  Noted weight.  Drove whole truck & noted weight.  Next day, went back with trailer (on the way out of town), and weighed:
TV Front axle
TV both axles
TV & Trailer (did not fiddle to get just one trailer axle on).
Just trailer (drove TV off far end).

Unfortunately, people were behind me - I would have loved to take my WDH bars off and do more measurements.

Some day

[wavery]

For those who live in California, there are lots of free scales.  Here is a list of (maybe not all) Public Truck Scales in CA:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/trucks/trucksize/publicscales/

There is one near me in Sacramento, Sims Metal (vehicle recycling center), and they're free.  Huge scale - could hold an 18-wheeler.  You drive on it, and a large digital display at the end shows the weight.

So, I drove up - put my front 2 wheels on.  Noted weight.  Drove whole truck & noted weight.  Next day, went back with trailer (on the way out of town), and weighed:
TV Front axle
TV both axles
TV & Trailer (did not fiddle to get just one trailer axle on).
Just trailer (drove TV off far end).

Unfortunately, people were behind me - I would have loved to take my WDH bars off and do more measurements.

Some day

I'm afraid if I pull into one of those places that they won't let me leave, towing my trailer .

[6Quigs]

In most vehicles I have researched, GCWR minus the curb weight (even before adding passengers and luggage) is lower than the towing capacity.
 

Not sure what vehicles you are talking about.
Can you provide actual numbers?

I ran the numbers for both my vehicles, and they were both fine.

Chevy 2500 Crew cab.
Curb weight 5,595lbs
GCWR 16,000 lbs
Max Tow cap. 10,100

16,000 - 5,595 = 10,406 Looks fine

GMC Safari 2002
Curb Weight 4,300 lbs
GCWR 10,000 lbs (not sure where wavery got his 11,100)
Max Tow cap. 5,400

10,000 - 4,300 = 5,700 lbs 300lbs over

It is important to be using the curb weight for the vehicle, not the GVWR. For the Safari the curb weight is 4,300 lbs, the GVWR is 5,900, a difference of 1,600 lbs. This means with an empty van I can tow a 5,700 lb trailer, but once I get in the van,and fill the fuel tank I have to subtract my 150 lbs weight( hey, I one weighted 150 lbs), and another 150 lbs for the 18 gallons of fuel, now I can only tow 5,400lbs.
If I load up the van with the wife, 4 kids, dog,(a total of 1,100 lbs) and add a hitch weight of 500 lbs, the total weight on the 2 axles of my van is now 5,900lbs.
Now I can only tow 10,000 - 5900 = 4,100 lbs which yes is less than the max tow capicity.

Am I making sense?

[zamboni]

If I load up the van with the wife, 4 kids, dog,(a total of 1,100 lbs)

Ok, we've met your family...

4 kids at, say, 80 lbs each.
Wives are never more than 120...

1100-80-80-80-80-120= 640 pound dog = Clifford The Big Red Dog???





(it took me a moment to realize that you were adding the family onto the previous gas, driver, etc

[6Quigs]

THanks Glen for checking my numbers.

I meant to say
"If I load up the van with the wife, 4 kids, dog, and all their stuff, game boys, pillows, toys, cooler of drinks..."

Cuz you know our dog is only 18 lbs of fluff!!

[AustinBoston]

Please read my last post. I used your quote:

"They say the maximum you can tow is your GCWR minus you actual curb weight (and then minus the weight of passengers and luggage). "

I do not believe that is correct.

It is.

I think that what you may be mis-understanding is that your GCWR is your GVWR + your maximum trailer towing capacity.

That is a very different statement from your first statement:

The maximum trailer tongue weight is your GCWR minus your actual curb weight (and then minus the weight of passengers and luggage).

Continuing:

I'm not sure where you got the definition that you posted (in that quote). Maybe you could post a link to that.

It's almost word-for word what I've seen in several publications, including my Astro owner's manual, Trailer Life's annual towing guide, the 2000 Ford Motor Co's towing guide, and the 2000 GM towing guide.

GCWR is the absolute maximim your tow vehicle and trailer(s) can weigh combined.

So he's right that it would seem to make no sense that the Tow Rating would be more than the GCWR minus the empty weight of the tow vehicle.  

BTW, there may be factory installed options that dramatically affect the curb weight of the tow vehicle, such as a different engine or AWD, which can add 300 lbs or more to the curb weight.  They don't re-work the numbers for every possible option.

Austin