How to decide what to buy?!

[Lulumac]

Our family (2 adults, 2 little kids) is going on a long trip this summer (around the western U.S.) and we've decided to buy a pop-up.  We're having a tough time deciding on which one to buy.  Any advice from you experts out there?  We drive a Mazda MPV.  Here are the four we've seen within our towing capacity:

1980 Starcraft Starmaster -- it smells a little musty, but has awesome storage, including a wardrobe.  It cranks up fine.  As you can imagine, it's a bit banged up and has a goddawful orange and brown interior, but is charming in a retro way.  The canvas has shrunk, so the owner stuffs foam in the openings.  There is one split that needs to be repaired.  It would need new tires, but is otherwise intact.  I think it has two queen beds.  The furnace is broken.  Obviously, this one has many drawbacks, but the price can't be beat:  $200.

1996 Palomino Yearling -- This one has two tables on pedestals.  The interior is very pretty.  The stove hooks on outside as well as inside.  The fridge has a little tiny freezer compartment, I think.  (What would you put in there - three hot dogs?!)  There is a double and a queen bed.  There are no brakes or fire extinguisher.  There is an awning and a screen porch (never used).  It's been used frequently, but still seems in good shape.  $3,000.

1997 Jayco 1208 -- This one is set up for a portapotty, but we'd have to buy one.  The water tank (20 gallons) has been removed, but could be reinstalled.  There is a little rust on the levellers, but it didn't seem excessive.  It has one king and one queen bed.    It has a 3-way fridge.  It has surge brakes and an awning.  The wheel bearings were repacked last year.  The roof is 4 or 5 years old; it was replaced due to hail damage.  $4,300.

2003 Rockwood Freedom 2270 -- This one was used very seldom, since the guy who bought it was trying to convince his wife to like camping.  The battery has never been used.  It's wired for trailer brakes (electric) but he never hooked them up.  It has an awning.  There is a king and a queen bed.  There are two tables, one pedestal and one free-standing.  The stove doesn't move outside, but there is a propane grill that attaches outside, with a little counter.  There is a ceiling fan that gives great ventilation.  

Any advice?

Thanks!!

[Billy Bob]

We are doing the same trip this year. Leaving WNY on June 30th and hope to be back by the first week in August. However, it's just the bride and I so that makes it a little easier.

Here's the thing that will determine what you buy. WEIGHT  and that means TOTAL WEIGHT of your tow vehicle with passengers and all your gear and the TOTAL WEIGHT of the pop up trailer when it's fully loaded. You have to find out what your TV is capable of towing in the MOUNTAINS. Read your owners manual and it should tell you what your allowed to tow and the combined weight of what your allowed to tow and haul in your TV. Then deduct 20% because your going in the mountains, right ? ? ?  

DON'T over buy something you can't tow and STOP safely with your TV ! ! !

[pvero]

We also are doing a long trip this summer.  We are coastal camping in California.  We drive a Sequioa so towing is not a problem.  After looking at the used PUP, we decided to go new.  They don't seem to lose their value here in Colorado.  We just brought home our Fleetwood Utah on Saturday.  We looked at bed arrangement, size, storage and how we would grow into the PUP in years to come.  Our kids are 11 and 14. We chose the Utah because all the fold down beds (table  & couch) were on one side.  That means when the kids bring friends, we have the king bed on one side and the kids will all be on the other.
Go and sit in the PUPs and imagine yourself together for a long period of time.  That will help in the decision.  Good luck and enjoy!!!!

[cobbs1]

Just a couple of thoughts.  Consider that you are going to be on the road for a significant amount of time. At times, you'll be out of range of any dealerships for repairs. Please think about which one will be trustworthy (not so sure about the one that's $200).
 
I think that the 3-way fridge will come in handy. It runs on battery power while you are traveling.  You would not have to empty the fridge every time you pack up. But, the trailer would need to be fairly level when you tow it.  From what I've read, the fridges need to be level to prevent damage.  
 
I also think you might want the electric brakes if you are towing in the mountains. Some of the folks out west probably have better opinions on that than me.  Our trailer weighs a lot, so we had to have the electric brakes.  
 
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[mountainrev]

At the risk of being redundant, I'll repeat what other responders have said:  Start with carefully examining what your tow vehicle can handle.  You mention that all of the campers you list are within your towing capacity, but I'm a bit skeptical.  Mazda MPV's probably don't have a great deal of horsepower or torque.  With four people and gear loading you down, and travelling through the mountains in the west, you will definitely want to take a close look at this.  Does your Mazda have a tow package?  I'm not sure if Mazda offers that with the MPV's, but a tow package typically gives you auxilliary coolers (trans. and oil), because an over-worked engine will easily overheat.

Second, the campers you list are all very different from each other.  Forget the $200 special.  Leave that for the hunters who aren't going far and just want a roof over their heads and be up off the ground.  The Palomino and Jayco both seem overpriced to me.  Check the NADA website (nadaguides.com) to see what they say about value.  You didn't mention a price for the Rockwood, but I would definitely gravitate toward that (assuming your vehicle can safely tow it).

Be patient when shopping around.  Check your newspaper, eBay, and craigslist.com.  If nothing else, they will give you a better idea of what campers are going for in your area.  

Good luck!

[Kelly]

I second what Mountainrev sez ... and what cobbs1 said ... I think I'm going to be redundant too!

Specifically ~ double check your weights.  Then triple check them.  Weight add up quickly ~ especially when you have children.  And that which stops well here in the flatlands does not stop well in the mountains!  

I used to have a 1997 Palomino that we towed through mountains in several western states - it didn't have brakes but we towed with a big ole Suburban.  I wouldn't even think about trying that with a minivan.  The price for the Palomino you're looking at does seem high.

I have a Jayco now that I tow with an Astro.  Haven't had it in the mountains yet ~ just a few big hills in southeastern Ohio.  But I love having the surge brakes ... they're helpful even in the flatlands.  This one also seems overpriced.  

I don't know anything about the Rockwoods, except that Cyclone has one and she likes it.  LOL

I would also scratch the Starcraft from the list.  Mountainrev is right ~ you'll be far away from a lot of dealers.  Best to have one that is reliable.  I wouldn't rule out the Jayco or Palomino ... if they have been well taken care of they should be okay.  I would definitely try to negotiate a better price.

Good luck and welcome to PUT!

[Lulumac]

You are being so helpful -- thanks!!

Our MPV is a V6 with a towing package (3,000 lbs. limit.)  Each of these trailers' unloaded weight is something less than 2,000, so we're pretty sure we're cool.  I know that the loaded weight includes passengers and everything we pile into the van, too, so we'll have to pack carefully.

The price on the Rockwood is $4,900.  The NADA guides agree with the folks who said that the Jayco and Palomino are overpriced -- but the Rockwood is actually underpriced (not that we'll be passing that info along to the seller.)

Are surge brakes or electrical brakes better?  The Jayco has surge brakes and the Rockwood has electrical.

Thanks for welcoming us into the club!

[tlhdoc]

I like electric brakes better, because you can brake the trailer when you want.  You have to have the vehicle wired for the electric brake controller (which you will need to buy) if you have electric brakes. Surge brakes do not need any special wiring or a controller.  The brakes automatic ly apply themselves when the coupler hits the back of the ball on the hitch.  You can not manually apply the brakes with surge brakes.

[Gone-Camping]

To a certain degree I go along with the above replies. However, the old Starcraft is a very solid trailer, I had to mid 70's and both are still in use (one of them - the Starmaster8 -  is right next door to me). For $200 that leaves you plenty of room to fix it up. Add in $1,000 you can buy all new canvas (install it yourself, very easy to do), new tires, new bearings, and new brakes! About all that leaves is the cable system, make sure it's got a good lube!

Now that is out of the way, I'd still go with the newer trailer anyway. Starcraft beds are probably NOT queen size, not if it's got a 10' box on it. You'll find they are both 'Full Size' beds.
 
For those rainy days you want as much room inside as you can get, and the extra 2' that a 12' box will provide WILL make a difference!

[cyclone]

I don't know your budget - but if you can swing it, I would go with the Rockwood.  Actually, I have the "clone" of the Rockwood - I believe that the colors are about the only difference between Flagstaff and Rockwood.  Mine was used for one season (minimally) and traded in on a TT when the pop-up was just too much for the original owners to handle.  It looked brand new when we brought it home, and I've been happy with it. I really like the fantastic fan (or whatever it's called); and the mattress warmers are wonderful in cooler weather.  We have A/C and a furnace and have used both.  I would not camp in TN without the A/C.  The RVQ grill had never been used when we got the camper, and I can understand why after trying it.  It's junk.  We had problems getting it to work right, and hated cleaning it.  Got rid of it and replaced it with a Weber Baby Q.  (Or we take charcoal along when the mood strikes).  The little shelf for the outside is handy, though.  Good luck with whatever you decide and enjoy camping!

[Kavoom]

I have a Flagstaff also, an 8 box 176.  They are good pups, solid and your price very a hardly used on is good.  You might do a search on google with the names of the pups and the word "problem(s)".  You can see if there are any systemic issues.  You could end up retroing air later if you wanted for around 500 - 600.  

Forest River products (Rockwood/Flagstaff) are generally a little "tongue heavy" over some of the others check that out on your ratings.  Forest River products have not had some of the "model year" problems of other companies e.g. delaminating roofs, bad lift systems, etc.  Oh, does that Rockwood have the electric mattresses?  They are a very nice exclusive feature on these, but you need shore power to operate them.  

And hook up the brakes...

But if the price is in your range that would be a good choice...