Weight vs. brakes (follow-up)

[Lulumac]

Me again -- thanks for all the useful feedback on my earlier post about which used pup to buy.

One of our choices (the Palomino) has no brakes, but is 500 lbs. lighter than the other two we're seriously considering (Jayco and Rockwood).  (We've pretty well eliminated the Starcraft because of bed size -- if anyone is looking for a $200 pup, let us know and we'll point you in the direction of it.)  Which is more valuable in terms of performance -- lighter weight or brakes?  The Jayco has surge brakes and the Rockwood has electronic brakes.  All three pups' unloaded weights are below 2,000 UVW and our minivan has a towing capacity of 3,000 lbs.

Also, on average, how many pounds of gear/cargo do you bring along?

Thanks a bunch!

[wavery]

Me again -- thanks for all the useful feedback on my earlier post about which used pup to buy.

One of our choices (the Palomino) has no brakes, but is 500 lbs. lighter than the other two we're seriously considering (Jayco and Rockwood).  (We've pretty well eliminated the Starcraft because of bed size -- if anyone is looking for a $200 pup, let us know and we'll point you in the direction of it.)  Which is more valuable in terms of performance -- lighter weight or brakes?  The Jayco has surge brakes and the Rockwood has electronic brakes.  All three pups' unloaded weights are below 2,000 UVW and our minivan has a towing capacity of 3,000 lbs.

Also, on average, how many pounds of gear/cargo do you bring along?

Thanks a bunch!

Trailer brakes are not all that expensive to install. In the long run, they'll pay for themselves by the lack of wear & tear on the TV. They also have the added feature of stopping the trailer in the (unlikely) event that it comes unhitched.

In just clothes, food & drinks, kitchen appliances, utensils (pots & pans), paper goods, bedding & linen, awning matt, firewood, folding chairs, extra tools and fuel you can easily have 300-400 pounds. We also carry a Tee-pee tent, porta-potty, generator, 2-inverters, microwave oven, 2nd battery, Bal leveler, power drill, power saw, kayak and hydraulic jack. Probably another 300 pounds. It all adds up fast and I probably forgot stuff.

[mike4947]

First forget dry/empty weights NO ONE EVER towed a trailer at it's dry weight. Until you get a true scale weight use the GVWR of the trailer.
As for brakes remember your van's brakes were designed to stop the vehicle and it's rated loading INSIDE THE VAN. Hanging 1500 pounds off the back exceeds the vehicle's GVWR and that's what the brakes were designed to stop. Not it's GCWR.
Now on the the two worst words in the RV business "tow rating". On your van it is a fantasy number calculated by taking the GCWR (maximum total weight allowed for van, it's loading, and the total trailer weight...IIRC for your van it's 7200 pounds) and sutracting the weight of an unoptioned base van with only 165 pound allowance for the driver.
Best bet get the van weighed and what you're going to load in it. Then subtract that from the GCWR and find out how little you can actually tow.

[AustinBoston]

Which is more valuable in terms of performance -- lighter weight or brakes?

Reduced weight is not a substitute for brakes.

Although it matters where you are going to tow (mountains or plains), no matter where you tow you can encounter the dreaded panic stop.

If your van's loaded weight is 3500 lbs, it will take noticeably longer to stop than it would empty, even without the trailer.

Add a two thousand pound trailer, and it will take at least 1-1/2 times as far to stop without brakes.

Austin

[Lulumac]

We appreciate all the advice we're getting about buying a pop-up.  As of this morning, I'm feeling that we're not smart enough to buy one, between all the different weights and abbreviations, and that it looks like, even with a 3,000 lbs. towing package, our vehicle is inappropriate for one.  

Maybe it's back to tent camping for us.  Sigh....

Thanks anyway.  Happy travels!

[wavery]

We appreciate all the advice we're getting about buying a pop-up.  As of this morning, I'm feeling that we're not smart enough to buy one, between all the different weights and abbreviations, and that it looks like, even with a 3,000 lbs. towing package, our vehicle is inappropriate for one.  

Maybe it's back to tent camping for us.  Sigh....

Thanks anyway.  Happy travels!

I wouldn't be so fast........... :confused:

PU camping is GREAT and easy.

A 3000# tow capacity should handle most PUs. I won't even mention what my tow capacity is. It will start a riot here :p . You should be able to find a PU that you can tow safely and comfortably. Most of them are very easy to tow.

[Kelly]

We appreciate all the advice we're getting about buying a pop-up.  As of this morning, I'm feeling that we're not smart enough to buy one, between all the different weights and abbreviations, and that it looks like, even with a 3,000 lbs. towing package, our vehicle is inappropriate for one.  

Maybe it's back to tent camping for us.  Sigh....

Thanks anyway.  Happy travels!

I don't think anybody here is trying to discourage you from getting a PU ... we just want you to be aware of the variables.

There are many people who tow safely with minivans.  We want you to be one of those families ~ safe.  There are many options out there for you.

I camp with a family with two small children that just purchased an 8-foot Palomino.  Well within the towing capacity of their vehicle and big enough for a small family used to tent camping.  Many of the 10' PUs can be safely towed as well.  It's just a matter of being aware of what the numbers mean and how they apply to you.

If I can learn this stuff ~ anybody can.  We want to help you educate yourselves not make you feel ignorant.

I sure hope you are able to join our little cult, er family.    

[AustinBoston]

We appreciate all the advice we're getting about buying a pop-up.  As of this morning, I'm feeling that we're not smart enough to buy one, between all the different weights and abbreviations, and that it looks like, even with a 3,000 lbs. towing package, our vehicle is inappropriate for one.  

Maybe it's back to tent camping for us.  Sigh....

Thanks anyway.  Happy travels!

Perhaps this is a good time to learn something about the internet.  There are all types.  Some will bend over backwards to help you.  Others will make you feel like an idiot.  Some are so idiotic they'll make us idiots seem like geniuses.  And once in a while you get someone who simply rubs people the wrong way.

How do I know?  I've got some kind of internet multiple personality disorder.  I've made single posts that got all of those responses.

Get a nice thick hide, and remember, all internet advice is free, and worth every penny you pay for it.

Austin (including mine)

[wynot]

Without getting into the details of TV capacity, just get brakes on the popup.  It's like seat belts, you only need them in case of an accident, so only wear them when you plan on having an accident.
 
I don't know what you are using for a tow vehicle, but regardless, unless you have a full sized truck-based vehicle (Tahoe, Expedition, Suburban, pickup, etc.), you probably have brakes designed only for the full load on the vehicle itself.  Even these types of vehicles benefit from trailer brakes.
 
Trailer brakes shorten the braking distance, can kill a sway starting, spread the braking load between 6 wheels instead of 4, and just make it a much more pleasant driving experience.  I'm not a fan of surge brakes, but I'd rather have those than no brakes.
 
Personally, I didn't enjoy ending up on the far side of the intersection the couple of times I had to stand on the brakes towing an unbraked popup, driving UNDER the speed limit and cautiously.  The fact that we didn't get hit is because the other people's brakes worked REALLY WELL.
 
If you're looking at an RV dealership, and the salesperson says you don't need brakes, I'd recommend leaving.  But that's my opinion.  As Austin says, your advice on here is worth what is paid for it.