Towing a Popup with a Minivan? Any comments?

[edwardr132]

I have a 1997 3.3ltr V6 Plymouth Grand Voyager which I am using currently to tow my 1750lb "empty"  and say 2200lb loaded 2000 Fleetwood Coleman Seapine.  I had a trans cooler installed (aftermarket) as well as the standard 4 plug wiring.  I am also only driving in 3rd gear based on advice I have been reading in other forums.  Unfortunately, the Seapine does not have brakes installed on it.  I am thinking about adding the investment in it, but am wondering how much they would help and still not sure how long I would keep it before upgrading.

I have towed it about 600 miles (between Illinois and Michigan) so far and I think the minivan seems to tow it just fine.  I wish the Minivan though had better brakes.  I am being very careful about breaking distance and essentially hanging out around with 18 wheelers instead of zooming all over the place.

Can it be done for years and years or is everybody just using it temporarily and getting a better tow vehicle as soon as they can afford it?  

With gas prices where they are and considering I have 4 kids which means I need a 3 seat vehicle anywhere I go;   3 seat SUV's are definitely more expensive than Minivans as well as gass guzzlers.

Anybody have any comments about towing with a Minivan?  Anything to improve the experience?   When I was camping, sombody next to me bought a new Dodge Grand Voyager "with tow package installed" and was towing a pop-up that had a light weight of 3,000lbs (had slider on board which was really neat!).
I wonder if he was "pushing the limits" of towing though with a Minivan.  He planned to take it to Yellowstone from the Midwest where I live.

[Billy Bob]

I just seen a "boating" show on tv and they were adding new hubs and brakes to the trailer for the cost of about $350. That would be a VERY good investment to me and my FAMILY if I was towing a extra 2200 lbs behind me.

I tow a boat for MANY years that does NOT have brakes however, it weights in at only 1500 lbs. Stopping with that is OK but I still leave extra room in front of me. But I wouldn't even think about towing my PU that weights in at 2300 lbs ready to camp. Your taking a chance you might someday regret. I know I do the same thing sometimes thinking do I really want to invest more money is something that I might get rid of. But then I would think is saving $400 worth my family's safety.

You can upgrade your mini vans brakes but unless you do it yourself it will cost you at least $400.

As far as someone towing a PU weighing in at 3000 lbs empty and planning on going to Yellowstone NP I wouldn't advise it. In my Ford Escape owners manual it says to deduct 2% for every 1000 feet in elevation. So at 10,000 ft you should 20% of your total weight. That's a LOT of extra weight if your not figuring on it.

I really think your at or near the upper limit of most mini vans especially if your thinking of long distance travel thru mountains. Have you read your owners manual for it's specs.

[wynot]

On a very general note, the minivan tow vehicle discussion thread has been discussed many times on here - with strong camps on both sides of it.  Just search on the topic, and you'll find more than you want to read on it.  You'll probably even see that I have been in both camps!!

On a specific note, my personal opinion is, and has been that minivans are built from beefed up car chassis with enough brakes to stop a minivan with a full load of people.  Not a full load AND a loaded camper, especially if said camper has no brakes.

[altozwei]

We just returned recently from a three-week trip from Dallas, through Colorado, to Grand Teton, Yellowstone, Flaming Gorge, Arches, Canyonlands, Monument Valley and back through New Mexico to home again. We towed our '97 Starcraft Venture 2108 with a 2001 Nissan Quest. We had no problems except for one particularly steep grade somewhere near Flaming Gorge where it was a tad slow going. The van pulls the trailer exceptionally well and we have experienced no troubles in stopping. We do not have trailer brakes. We did add a trans cooler to reduce the possibility of damage. Also, before we take it on a long trip, we always change out the trans fluid and then change it again afterward. We also averaged 17.5 mpg. Previously, we owned a '96 Quest. We also towed this same trailer with that one. It didn't have quite the same horsepower as the newer one so we didn't take it to the mountains, but we did tow the pup over 3000 miles last summer with no problems.

Happy motoring!

Patti
Steve
Elspeth
Kestrel
Rowan
and Nike the wonder dog

[Billy Bob]

We did add a trans cooler to reduce the possibility of damage. Also, before we take it on a long trip, we always change out the trans fluid and then change it again afterward.
Happy motoring!

VERY good advice ! ! !

[Camper Ron]

Hi Edward, like wynot said this has been discussed at length here but here goes another .02.  I tow with a 2005 T&C with no tow package and the only passengers are my wife, my dog, and I.  My PU is 1917# with options and unloaded.  It also has electric brakes and they are the only reason I feel I can tow safely.  The van tows "okay" but I'll say it again...a minivan makes a lousey tow vehicle.  My humble advice, if I had 4 kids and a heavy PU with no brakes, I'd either buy an adequate tow vehicle or go back to tents.  Sorry but I tow with a mini and I know what it is like being near the edge but you are loaded way over the edge.  Please don't be offended..I really am not trying to.

[edwardr132]

How much do electric brakes on the pop-up reduce braking distance?  Do they almost have the same braking distance then as towing no pop-up?

[ka9nyn]

Hello.

I towed w/ a 1990 Dodge Grand Caravan (3.3L) for several years. PUP was a '95 Jayco 1006ST (essentially a 12 footer, including the nose trunk).

It had surge (hydraulic) brakes, which made towing (and stopping) much nicer.

I used OD unless trans started to 'hunt' bretween OD and 3rd gear, then went in 3rd to protect trans.

Also, every year I towed, I had the trans fluid and filter changed. Cheap insurance compared to rebuilding or replacing the trans.

Hope this is of use.

[Camper Ron]

How much do electric brakes on the pop-up reduce braking distance?  Do they almost have the same braking distance then as towing no pop-up?

If I understand your question I'd have to say that yes, a PU with brakes would afford you nearly the same stopping distance as your TV can stop without towing.  Notice I said "nearly" as I don't know the exact distances.  The brakes on the TV are meant to stop just the TV.  That's why it is good to have brakes on your PU so it can stop itself.  When I hit the brakes, my PU brakes come on just a bit before my TV and I come to a smooth stop.  If I turn down my brake controller(less PU braking and more TV braking), it feels as if I'm being pushed by my PU when I stop.  If the brakes on your TV are new and up to snuff that may not be a problem....for awhile.  But if they are worn, sooner or later, they will fade on you when you need them the most...say a busy intersection after a long desent down a hill.  Get the brakes...from what I hear it's not a hard job to put them on. Check this site. There have been plenty who have installed them.

[CAPEd CODger]

I towed a '76 Valley Forge (that I can't remember the weight of) with a "stock" Grand Caravan ( '88 3.0L V-6) for 3+ years. It had no brakes. The van did OK pulling and stopping.

Later, we got a Ford Aerostar (94 3.0L V-6) and it did even better. I think because of RWD vs FWD.
When we got the Cape Cod, it came with elec. brakes. Made a major improvement in stopping performance.

As others have said, get the brakes added to your PUP. You won't regret it even if you do decide to upgrade the tow vehicle in the future.

As far as the tranny service goes, I had mine done every other year. Usually no more that 12k miles had gone by. Yeah, low miles, the wife works at home, and I drive a company vehicle.

Trans service is cheaper than a rebuild.

Happy Camping!

Bob

[esclark]

We also tow with a minivan.  There are lots who do.  Our pop-up has brakes and weights 1542 unloaded.  Ours is very light and I would NOT tow it if it didn't have the brakes.

[kampinguru]

I have towed our trailer with my wifes 2000 Grand Caravan that was equiped with the 3.8l engine and the tow package.  As you can see by my sig, I no longer tow with that vehicle.  When I towed with the minivan, I thought that towed very well.  When I moved to my current vehicle, I realized how wrong I was.  Yes the manual said that what I was towing was within specs for the vehicle, and I even had the WDH installed.  Whether one can tow with a minivan and whether one should are two different stories.  Regular driving can be planned and distances left to compensate for lack of acceleration and braking, but in an emergency situation, one no longer has those luxuries.  Flame suit on here, but I am firmly camped in the side that says unless you are towing a tent, minivans are not effective tow vehicles.  
All that being said, it is a free country, and people are, for the most part, allowed to do what they feel comfortable with.  I am not trying to slam anyone here, just to present a side of towing that most people seem to forget.  Emergency situations are not usually planned for when purchasing a pop up that will be towed with a minivan.  Have a great long weekend.

[edwardr132]

I am in debate mode on what to do about this.   I plan to camp around 6 times a year, (twice a month during the 3 Summer Months) but drive the Van without towing about 346 days a year.  It's a hard decision to buy a "gas guzzler 3 seat SUV for those 346 days right now...  Also two of my kids are only 5 years old and are currently in booster seats and so the seats can't be folded back everytime they get in and out of the SUV....

Unfortunately, I also got a price on putting brakes on the popup...

$500 for the popup and $300 for the brake controller on the Van.  Considering the age of the Minivan is a 1997, but with only 71,000 miles on it. (we really don't drive as much as many people do around here) I am having a quandary about what to do...

[Camper Ron]

I am in debate mode on what to do about this.   I plan to camp around 6 times a year, (twice a month during the 3 Summer Months) but drive the Van without towing about 346 days a year.  It's a hard decision to buy a "gas guzzler 3 seat SUV for those 346 days right now...  Also two of my kids are only 5 years old and are currently in booster seats and so the seats can't be folded back everytime they get in and out of the SUV....

Unfortunately, I also got a price on putting brakes on the popup...

$500 for the popup and $300 for the brake controller on the Van.  Considering the age of the Minivan is a 1997, but with only 71,000 miles on it. (we really don't drive as much as many people do around here) I am having a quandary about what to do...

I have been there so I feel your pain.  Do you have a second vehicle?  Lots of guys have towed alone in their minivan and had the wife and kids and a bunch of camping gear loaded in the car.  I know it's twice the gas but it takes care of the weight/safety issue and if you are only going 6 times a year, this may be a temporarly solution for you.

[edwardr132]

I have been there so I feel your pain.  Do you have a second vehicle?  Lots of guys have towed alone in their minivan and had the wife and kids and a bunch of camping gear loaded in the car.  I know it's twice the gas but it takes care of the weight/safety issue and if you are only going 6 times a year, this may be a temporarly solution for you.

My other car is a Honda Accord so for short trips; we may actually do that....
I figured out that I don't get the "sag" in the back of the Van if I don't carry the (2) coolers in the rear of the Van.  Those coolers I guess are pretty heavy...