Sway, Alignment, and ME (after our 2nd trip)

[sandcsantacruz]

Hello all!!,

Well, we recently wrapped up our 2nd trip in our pup.  Went to the Mogollon rim around Knoll lake(for those who know Az) and had a great time.  
   
Before we left, I found our bad trailer ground so all our lighting worked, connected our 2 batts together the right way, figured out why my truck wouldnt charge my batts(needed a fuse the factory doesnt include and doesnt seem to want you to know unless u ask),added a multimeter to check my batt "health", and 2 inside fan/light combo's which made it sooo much nicer inside, bought some aquatainers from the local walmart, and I even fixed our hot water heater so it would light and do its job(but lost a lot of eyebrows/lashes)
   
BUT NOW ON TO MY QUESTION. Is there an easy way to check the wheel alignment on the pup at home.  I accidently hit a big ole bump way too fast and I think because of that I am having sway issues even at 60-65mph.  Before the bump, I know for sure this trip I overloaded one side with weight from the extra 3 water jugs I brought.  I took them out and it was alright.  Then when we were on our way home(after the bump), the trailer was about empty and it now has a good amount of sway.  If you cant do this at home, has this sort of thing happened to anyone else,and if so approx how much it to fix and what was wrong?
A secondary question along the same lines, is a sway controller worth the money? Price of part/labor here is $300!


As always all input is appreciated!!!

[flyfisherman]

Coleman/Fleetwood campers of that era (and especially the model), were notorious for sway. I use to have a '96 Coleman/Fleetwood Yukon that had the front storage compartment and it was a bear for sway ... EMPTY! You had to load the thing  (minding your "P's & Q's" loading or it would be sway city again), but once you had it "balanced", went down the road kinda straight!

By all means, I'd invest in the anti-sway equiptment. And I'm sure there are members here on this board real familiar with your model who will post some experience.


Fly

[SpeakEasy]

It seems to me that the issue of wheel alignment and trailer sway may be two separate items in this case. You have the issue of weight changes, which may have more to do with the trailer sway than the issue of the bump and the possible misalignment. You might want to try loading up the trailer exactly as you had it when you didn't experience sway to see if that weight distribution may have been "good" for preventing sway. A key issue in prventing sway is to have your tongue weight turn out to be about 10% to 15% of the total trailer weight. (Of course, if you want to be accurate about these weights you'll have to have the rig weighed.) When you moved the water jugs out you may have changed the weight distribution enough to begin causing sway.

Concerning wheel alignment, I don't know of a way you can tell at home unless you are an expert in this sort of thing. I couldn't see anything wrong when my alignment was out. But, when I took it to a wheel-alignment expert, he went underneath and in a couple of minutes told me that my alignment was out. He either could see something that I couldn't see OR he was able to deduce from what he saw that alignment was the only thing that could possibly be causing my noticeable tire wear.

I say "alignment" because that's the word you used. In my case it was actually a bent axle. As I understand it, the wheels can be out-of-kilter in two different ways. They can appear as non-vertical lines when viewed from the rear (or front), or they can appear as non-vertical lines when viewed from straight above (or below). There are two different names for these situations - castor and camber? It's my understanding that straightening the axle is the remedy for either situation. My local guy charged me $200 to do this repair. (Then I also had to buy two tires.)

-Speak

[mike4947]

Like Fly said, low box Niagaras were notorious for having extremely low tongue weights in the manufacturer's attempt to allow for weight in the front trunk. later years actually had the trailer tongues drilled for mounting a friction sway control at the factory, and there were a lot of dealers who wouldn't sell a Coleman/Fleetwood front trunk model without a sway control.

Pricing for the Reese/Drawtite version runs apx $100. Camping World has a version that IIRC runs around $70.
So $200 is quite an inflated price for drilling 6 holes in the tongue, adding a plate under the ball and bolting it together.

[sandcsantacruz]

Well, what I led me to believe it may be alignment is I heard that alignment can affect sway.  the 1st time I towed it, it was empty with only the water tank filled(bleach water to sanitize) at 70-75 it had little to no sway.  the 2nd time was loaded with all our "gear" still not alot of sway.  the 3rd time was misweighted, it got better with the extra water out. but after that big'ole bump now it sways more than before.  my brother just took it out, just him so no gear in it (but fullwater tank) and he said it started to sway around 65.  

another twist to the story...the prev owner had a 2inch lift put on it.  that with my 4inch lifted truck and a 3 1/2 inch drop hitch the trailer was tongue down and I was towing it that way b4 the sway issue.  I bought the correct drop so all is level.  

     did this affect my sway?  should i go back to the lower hitch?  :eyecrazy:

Is it difficult to put on a "sway bar"? The shop I was at to have my new a/c (carrier 13,500...didnt think about getting the heat option till too late    )put on said they had to weld it.  

Sorry to sound so niave (hope is spelled it right :p )with all these q's  but its my 1st trailer.

[jtprevatte]

Hello all!!,
 
 Well, we recently wrapped up our 2nd trip in our pup.  Went to the Mogollon rim around Knoll lake(for those who know Az) and had a great time.  
     
 Before we left, I found our bad trailer ground so all our lighting worked, connected our 2 batts together the right way, figured out why my truck wouldnt charge my batts(needed a fuse the factory doesnt include and doesnt seem to want you to know unless u ask),added a multimeter to check my batt "health", and 2 inside fan/light combo's which made it sooo much nicer inside, bought some aquatainers from the local walmart, and I even fixed our hot water heater so it would light and do its job(but lost a lot of eyebrows/lashes)
     
 BUT NOW ON TO MY QUESTION. Is there an easy way to check the wheel alignment on the pup at home.  I accidently hit a big ole bump way too fast and I think because of that I am having sway issues even at 60-65mph.  Before the bump, I know for sure this trip I overloaded one side with weight from the extra 3 water jugs I brought.  I took them out and it was alright.  Then when we were on our way home(after the bump), the trailer was about empty and it now has a good amount of sway.  If you cant do this at home, has this sort of thing happened to anyone else,and if so approx how much it to fix and what was wrong?
 A secondary question along the same lines, is a sway controller worth the money? Price of part/labor here is $300!
 
 
 As always all input is appreciated!!!

I use to build utility trailers in the winter for supplemental income and maybe I can help you in this.  The axle setup is pretty much the same.

Ok, where the axle and the springs and the ubolts all come together....

If you look you will see the spring and where the spring meets the axle you will see a plate that is flat on one side and usually has a curve on the axle side to mate up with the shape of the axle.  This is the spring plate.  Most springs have a, um, for lack of better words, knob on them that you cannot see when the assembly is put together.  This "knob" goes into a hole that is in the spring plate to help algin everything and keep it from moving as you tighten everything when putting it together.  There is not much play in there....it can be moved around some but not much.

I don't think you really can knock a trailer axle out of alignment without just completely tearing it up.  It does not work on the same principal as vehicle axles.  

Check the spring mounts at the trailer frame for cracks in the welds and check to see if all the u-bolts holding the axle assembly are tight.

The way I used to align axles before I welded everything together was to measure from a known right angle such as the trailer frame corner to the axle on both side and compare the two measurements.  You can also measure across the frame to axle area (diagnally) to the axle and make sure you come up with the same measurement going both ways.  This method assures true square.

I can say that there is a possibility that the axle is a little out of alignment straight from the factory.  These units are made on an assembly line and made quick allowing for some error.  I made mine by hand and axle alignment always took the most time because I wanted to make sure they were straight so there was no sway.

Hope this helps.....

[wynot]

Your Niagara is going to come out much like our Utah, with a low tongue weight of probably around 6% unloaded.  

Prior to a good learning curve of packing, etc., we would start to encounter sway above 60 mph, even with our antisway friction bar tight.  Anyhow, we put every blessed heavy thing as far forward as possible, added the second propane tank and/or battery.  We blatantly ignore the 150 lb weight limit in the trunk, and put toolboxes, batteries, extra soda, and keep the hot water tank full.  Anything and everything heavy goes either as far forward as we can get in the camper or into the camper trunk.  We don't sway anymore.

[USCG Retired]

This worked for us and may help you.

I agree with all the replies about loading your trailer to adjust tongue weight.  I also agree with the person that suggested checking your axle alignment using the square measurement method. I would measure from the center of your hitch each wheel hub so that you know you are in alignment with the pull point of your trailer.  

 We have a Coleman Tacoma pop up with no front storage trunk and we are towing it with a Honda mini van.  We had all sorts of sway problems over 60 MPH no matter how we loaded it.   One time on the road we even took stuff out of the van and tossed it in the camper to increase the tongue weight.  The sway was reduced but still present.  Our problem was that the Oddessy has plenty of horse power but the body would squat with all the camping "stuff" in the van and increased tonge weight of the trailer.  I considered a sway control device but decided to try a weight distribution hitch first.  It was the best money I ever spent and we do not need a sway contol device at all.

 We purchased and installed a Reese light duty, weight distribution hitch, P/N 66069 from our local dealer for @ $325.  It can be seen at //www.reeseprod.com and is the one with only one spring bar.  It took about an hour to install and adjust.  I adjusted the lever that pulls on the spring bar so that the van's rear fender well is about an inch lower that the front wheel well.  The trailer and van are now basically level when fully loaded.  You don't adjust the hitch so that the vehicle's rear is jacked way up because you want to distribute the weight over both axles of the tow vehicle.  We don't even pay much attention to how we load the trailer anymore.  But we don't just load the front with a cord of wood either.

Hope that helps.

[tlhdoc]

I don't think you really can knock a trailer axle out of alignment without just completely tearing it up. It does not work on the same principal as vehicle axles.

YES THE TRAILER AXLE CAN GO OUT OF ALIGNMENT!!!
 
I had my axle aligned at at truck alignment place (it also does a lot of RVs for a local manufacturer and a Fleetwood PU dealer) this past winter.  They heated the axle to put it back into the proper alignment.  My tires were not wearing correctly.  IIRC it cost about $75.  I made an appointment, dropped it off on the way to work and picked it up on the way home.  I did not have a sway problem with the alignment being out.  I do use a friction sway bar for safety's sake and Camping World just had them on sale for $50.  Good luck on stopping the sway.

[sandcsantacruz]

Thx for the info on this....

I actually just installed the reese sway bar on my trailer.   Hopefully this will help if not cure the sway problem.   I havent taken'er out yet tho...I still need to finish installing my new cargo /deck lid..still waiting on latches (it would figure everywhere either doesnt carry them or is out)

[wynot]

Thx for the info on this....
 
I actually just installed the reese sway bar on my trailer. Hopefully this will help if not cure the sway problem. I havent taken'er out yet tho...I still need to finish installing my new cargo /deck lid..still waiting on latches (it would figure everywhere either doesnt carry them or is out)

Gotta remember!! the sway bar is to reduce the tendency to sway, not to fix the problem.  To get rid of sway, you have to change the balance of the camper, otherwise, when you hit the Coleman magic 60 mph, it will still try to sway.
 
I have run my camper up over 80 mph with no sway after making the appropriate weight changes AND running the friction sway.  Before, the friction sway still could allow it to sway slightly over 60 mph on downgrades.