TV mileage improvement-K and N filters

[wavery]

That works for me.  I support biodiesel and E85/M85.  I just don't think I should have to pay 100% gasoline prices for a blend that only delivers 80% of the fuel economy of pure gasoline.  I refuse to knowingly buy ethanol blends because I think that they should be appropriately cheaper, because I won't go as far on them.  And all this ranting and raving about how much it costs to produce E85 - I see a lot of grass areas along interstates that could be better served growing crops that would be converted to ethanol  - let's see, farm the areas and save the highway maintenance budget while paying a local farmer for their effort.

I agree with you. However, I would go a step farther. I would happily pay $1 per gallon more for ethanol than I would pay for petrol. At least until it is established and enough stations are in place to make them competitive. At that point, the laws of supply and demand will kick in and our capitalistic system will work on it's own. "It's all about the money".

The idea of taxing petrol to subsidize ethanol may be wrought with bureaucratic waste IMO. If petrol is taxed $1PG, I doubt if 25% of that money would actually find it's way to the ethanol manufacturers. I am more in favor of the consumer taking the responsibility to make the decision of where their $ goes by where they spend it. "It's all about the money". I don't like the government making decisions about where consumers $ goes. IMHO, that is an insult to our intelligence and a recipe for corruption and greed by getting too many hands on too much money. "It's all about the money".

How many taxes, programs and sir-charges have been levied on everything from gas to gambling with the promise that it will go to education? What a joke. It is almost always differed to other expenditures and the cost of managing those moneys is often higher than the $ collected through huge bureaucratic ineptness. "It's all about the money", let the consumer take responsibility for where it goes.

[AustinBoston]

That works for me.  I support biodiesel and E85/M85.  I just don't think I should have to pay 100% gasoline prices for a blend that only delivers 80% of the fuel economy of pure gasoline.

Around here (suburban Twin Cities), E85 sells for about 20 cents a gallon less than regular gasoline, and in the short run the price seems less volatile.

Four out of the five people I've talked to who own flex vehicles say they get more power and slightly more mileage with E85; the fifth said he saw no difference.

On the other hand, you may have to go 10 miles out of your way to find it.

Austin

[lwbfl]

We get most of our oil in America from Canada, not the Middle East.  We grow enough corn, soybeans, and other vegtables to make plenty of alternative fuel.  Technology is there for hydrogen powered vehicles (water), etc.  It is indeed about the $$$.  There is way too much money tied up in oil to make a change right now.

[wynot]

Around here (suburban Twin Cities), E85 sells for about 20 cents a gallon less than regular gasoline, and in the short run the price seems less volatile.
 
Four out of the five people I've talked to who own flex vehicles say they get more power and slightly more mileage with E85; the fifth said he saw no difference.
 
On the other hand, you may have to go 10 miles out of your way to find it.
 
Austin

I saw on the news where Minnesota was pushing E85 hard for support of the farm economy in the state.  But in fuel mileage, it's all about the BTUs and ethanol doesn't have it.  Octane perhaps, since it is cheap (subsidized) way to increase octane.  Just gotta wonder if the folks you've spoken with really paid attention to their fuel mileage on pure gasoline, because those just aren't statements that I've been hearing from folks using it (E85).
 
Of course, each of my car's have their preference on what fuel they like, and they don't necessarily all like the same brand...

[wynot]

We get most of our oil in America from Canada, not the Middle East. We grow enough corn, soybeans, and other vegtables to make plenty of alternative fuel. Technology is there for hydrogen powered vehicles (water), etc. It is indeed about the $$$. There is way too much money tied up in oil to make a change right now.

Everything I hear about the hydrogen side of life, says it costs far more to make than what is produced - especially separating hydrogen and oxygen out of water, apparently uses a LOT of electricity and fuel cell technology still needs some source fuel, where gasoline is often the fuel of choice...

[AustinBoston]

We grow enough corn, soybeans, and other vegtables to make plenty of alternative fuel.

Only if we ask the world to stop eating.

Austin

[wynot]

Only if we ask the world to stop eating.
 
Austin

Amen.
 
The crops that are currently being grown aren't sitting around waiting to be used for alternative fuels, they're either being consumed domestically or sold internationally.
 
The same technology that has allowed the US able to reduce the number of farms and still have phenomenal yields can be a very nasty double edged sword if we have significant droughts or flooding in strong ag regions.  Our farms here in the East are comparatively small and just don't produce like the midwest.  And much of the Western farms are so dependent on irrigation, that drought is a major issue.  Once you change land use from ag to residential, you permanently lose that production area.  Latest stats I read indicated that there wasn't enough farmland in the US to provide 100% ethanol production for demand, let alone, food AND ethanol.
 
If we're serious about this, then there needs to be a lot less useless grassy areas, more irrigation of semi-arid areas, and some removal of developed but unused properties (look out Superfund sites!!).  And controlled development, which at least where we live, doesn't appear to have any control whatsoever, as I watch farm after farm sprount Vinylland houses.

[cruiserpop]

what did I start?

to put some ofthis in perspective, my experience is with my 1999 durango slt with the 5.2l engine, stock. the route chosen is northen virginia/southern new england, I15-81-84 state route 9 inb conn, 95. length 550 miles, combination city/mountain/flat driving, no towing. mileage is based on the internal computer calculation and display. driving was comfortable highway speeds, 60-65. avarage of n/s round trip was 19.9mpg, up from an historic 16.5-17.5 avarage on the same trip.

there's the details.

[lwbfl]

Amen.
 
The crops that are currently being grown aren't sitting around waiting to be used for alternative fuels, they're either being consumed domestically or sold internationally.
 

As a farmer, I can honestly say that more crops are left in the field or plowed in than we could ever imagine.  It's a gamble, when the price drops, you can actually make more money by filing for crop insurance.  If you don't catch the price high when your crop is ready, well, you don't harvest it and make more money!  I know we cant go 100% alternative fuel, but we can reduce our dependancy by leaps and bounds if the government would not regulate such attempts in a way that makes them impossible to produce.  Lots of people around here have diesels and were using the used vegtable oil from local restaurants for fuel.  Now the government has added regular fuel tax and other taxes for people doing this so it's cheaper to buy off road fuel again.  How would they know?  Well, when you have millions invested in land and equipment, you can't afford to risk giving it away to the goverment for such small amounts.

[wynot]

As a farmer, I can honestly say that more crops are left in the field or plowed in than we could ever imagine. It's a gamble, when the price drops, you can actually make more money by filing for crop insurance. If you don't catch the price high when your crop is ready, well, you don't harvest it and make more money! I know we cant go 100% alternative fuel, but we can reduce our dependancy by leaps and bounds if the government would not regulate such attempts in a way that makes them impossible to produce. Lots of people around here have diesels and were using the used vegtable oil from local restaurants for fuel. Now the government has added regular fuel tax and other taxes for people doing this so it's cheaper to buy off road fuel again. How would they know? Well, when you have millions invested in land and equipment, you can't afford to risk giving it away to the goverment for such small amounts.

On our farm, we used to be able to landbank.  When that opportunity died, we went to the normal mid-atlantic eastern crops, winter wheat and corn.  I guess if we still had the farm, it would be soybeans & corn now, but who knows.  That farm was on a shale ridge, so it was 40% timber, and all shale...  We made far more money selling shale than by what was grown in the soil.  Interestingly enough, the current owners have left the fields fallow for 2 years, because hay/straw is paying more than the droughts are leaving for corn production.
 
In theory, since offroad is dyed, you could tell.  But find a farmer who isn't running offroad in his/her pickup...those 500 gallon tanks just call to be filled up from...
 
I am suprised that I haven't heard about the restaurants charging for their used fryoil, for the first time, they can make money out of what they have to pay to haul away!

[lwbfl]

On our farm, we used to be able to landbank.  When that opportunity died, we went to the normal mid-atlantic eastern crops, winter wheat and corn.  I guess if we still had the farm, it would be soybeans & corn now, but who knows.  That farm was on a shale ridge, so it was 40% timber, and all shale...  We made far more money selling shale than by what was grown in the soil.  Interestingly enough, the current owners have left the fields fallow for 2 years, because hay/straw is paying more than the droughts are leaving for corn production.
 
In theory, since offroad is dyed, you could tell.  But find a farmer who isn't running offroad in his/her pickup...those 500 gallon tanks just call to be filled up from...
 
I am suprised that I haven't heard about the restaurants charging for their used fryoil, for the first time, they can make money out of what they have to pay to haul away!

Yeah, they still pay you to haul it off for them too.  Not all offroad is dyed, off shore fuel is not  :#   We are actually allowed to run the off road fuel in our trucks as long as they are registered as farm trucks.  The thing that gets me is, back when we had our "shortage", all companies were allowed to run off road fuel.  That dye stays in the tank forever, so unless they catch you with a full tank of off road, how can they charge you?