"simple" tow question

[darkstar]

I'm sure this has been addressed before, but I would really like to get some input on this.  We will be buying a new (used) tow vehicle in the spring.  We currently have an "84 Dodge Ramcharger, an eight-cylinder.  It's a gas-sucking pig of a truck. We want to get something a little better on  gas milage. I'm assuming a four-cylinder would not be up to the job of towing a pop-up, so my basic question is about how a six-banger would perform.  We  live in Colorado, so I would like for responders  to factor in the fact that we will occasionally be taking it up mountain passes. The GVWR of our trailer is rated at 2550 lbs.  Any insight into what I should be looking at for our next TV would be very much appreciated!  Thanks, folks.  Brady

[AustinBoston]

I'm sure this has been addressed before, but I would really like to get some input on this.  We will be buying a new (used) tow vehicle in the spring.  We currently have an "84 Dodge Ramcharger, an eight-cylinder.  It's a gas-sucking pig of a truck. We want to get something a little better on  gas milage. I'm assuming a four-cylinder would not be up to the job of towing a pop-up, so my basic question is about how a six-banger would perform.  We  live in Colorado, so I would like for responders  to factor in the fact that we will occasionally be taking it up mountain passes. The GVWR of our trailer is rated at 2550 lbs.  Any insight into what I should be looking at for our next TV would be very much appreciated!  Thanks, folks.  Brady

One of the things about towing at altitude is that normally aspirated (i.e. non-turbocharged) engines loose horsepower at altitude.  Those mountain passes that get steeper and steeper do so as your tow vehicle has a harder and harder time producing power.  Depending on the engine, the power loss runs between 2%-4% per thousand feet, so by the time you hit 8,000 feet, you've lost 16%-32% of your horsepower.  If the engine started out at 250 HP, at 8,000 feet you may be down to as little as 170 HP.  Some engines can sense barometric pressure and respond to it, and with those vehicles, stopping, turning off the engine, and restarting may get  back some of the lost horsepower, but not all of it.  My understaning is some of the newest vehicles continuously sense bar. press. so this last part does not apply to those vehicles.

One thing many people overlook when towing in the mountains is that some engines can produce more horsepower with high-octane gasoline.  It's not a big boost, but even a little helps when you don't have enough.  Not all will benefit, though, so do some research before pouring extra money in the tank.

We towed across about a dozen mountain passes over 6,000 feet and a few about 9,500 feet in the summer of 2001 with our Chevy Astro (6 cyl. Vortec 4800? 4300?...brain is slipping).  The performance was adequate, but no more than adequate.  We avoided grades that exceeded 10% for more than 1/2 mile.  OTOH, our trailer was over 3200 lbs. and our whole rig was about 9,100 lbs...you should do better with a smaller trailer and a smaller load (five adult-sized people including two teen girls who had to have everything).

Don't even think about it if the trailer does not have brakes!  It doesn't matter how fast or slow you go up, you'll only come down too fast once.

Austin

[mountainrev]

Hey there, fellow western slopers.  Before considering how many cylinders, first look at the towing capacity of the vehicle.  More cylinders does not always automatically equal greater towing capacity.  Your camper is fairly heavy, especially when you factor in your gear, food, and the passengers in your vehicle (which most manufacturers count against towing capacity).  So by all means, first and foremost, look at the towing capacity of whatever vehicle you're considering!

I live near Vail at about 7,000', and I routinely drive over 9,000' to 11,000' passes.  And I like my V-8!  But I've heard good things from folks who tow with Chevy Trailblazers/GMC Envoys.  Those have in-line sixes (although a V-8 is optional).  

What Austin said about power loss at altitude is true.  But it was much more of an issue back in the day, when most cars had carburetors rather than fuel injectors.  Today, you usually only find turbochargers on 4 cylinder or diesel engines, so unless you're looking at a diesel (not a bad choice, by the way, but you'd be limited to full-sized pickups), you'll likely be going with a naturally-aspirated six or eight cylinder.  

Since you have two kids, I'd start by looking at either mid-sized or full-sized SUV's like the Trailblazer or Durango, or else quad cab pickups, such as Dodge Dakota or Toyota or Nissan.  Check the towing capacity.  Look at the MPG's.  Don't worry too much about whether it's a 6 cylinder or 8.  Some V-8's get the same or better mileage than sixes.  Some sixes have higher towing capacity than V-8's.  One thing that does make a difference is the gear ratio in the rear end.  The higher the number, the better it will pull a trailer over a pass, but the worse mileage it will get.  For instance, the Durangos come with a standard 3.55 rear end.  Mine has a 3.92, which gives it a higher towing capacity, but I lose maybe a mile or so per gallon.  And auxilliary transmission and oil coolers will also greatly enhance towing capacity.

Hope that gives you some ideas.

[CampDirt]

Hi, I'm in Aurora, CO and travel in the mountains alot!  My roomate has a Ford Explorer V-6 that could barely tow my 3600 lb PU.  But then again, he has problems driving at altitude.  I finally bought a used Durango with a V-8 that can pull my load with ease.  It too is a gas guzzler, but that's the trade-off for power.  There are some really nice diesel trucks (Ford 350) that can pull very large weight, if you want to pay for diesel.

Can't emphasize enough:  higher altitude = power loss (same in airplanes).  How much weight you are towing is more important for your tow vehicle.  Get the biggest engine in a used vehicle you can afford that can pull your trailer weight.  Buy something just to pull the PU, not to go to work in everyday.  These were the considerations and thoughts I put into buying my used (1998) Durango.   Remember, these are suppose to be recreational vehicles.  I have a Subaru Impreza wagon that gets a lot more mileage for everyday use.

By the way,  Eagle, huh?  I'm assuming you're a skier.  When does Vail open???    

[Billy Bob]

Even thought I have a Ford and have had good luck with them, if I had to choose between a Ford Explorer or a Chevy Trailblazer I would pick the Trailblazer hands down.

The Chevy Trailblazer gets better gas mileage and has a larger towing capacity than the Ford Explorer. Just look at the back of each vehicle. The Chevy comes with a class 3 hitch and a seven pin plug while the Ford comes with a class 2 hitch and a flat four pin plug.

Get yourself a nice used Chevy Trailblazer with a in-line 6 and you will be VERY happy you did.

[mountainrev]

By the way,  Eagle, huh?  I'm assuming you're a skier.  When does Vail open???    

Actually, I don't ski!  Probably the only person in a 50-mile radius.  My kids do, though (actally, they snowboard).  I stick to snowshoeing.

I believe Vail is slated to open Nov. 17, last I heard.  They don't usually alter that date, even if we get lots of early snow.

[tlhdoc]

the Ford comes with a class 2 hitch and a flat four pin plug.

Really?  I thought both of my Explorers came with a class III/IV receiver and the round Bargeman plug. :confused:

[Billy Bob]

tlhdoc,

Only if the Explorer has a V-8 in it. Now all the V-6 engine Explorers have a class 2 hitch and a flat 4 pin plug just like my Ford Escape and the V-6 Explorer has the same towing capacity as my Escape at 3500 lbs.

[tlhdoc]

tlhdoc,
 
Only if the Explorer has a V-8 in it. Now all the V-6 engine Explorers have a class 2 hitch and a flat 4 pin plug just like my Ford Escape and the V-6 Explorer has the same towing capacity as my Escape at 3500 lbs.

You need to check your facts.  Both the V6 and the V8 can come with the class II or the class III receiver and the matching plug.  The range in tow capacity goes from 3110 pounds for the V6 4 X 2 with the class II receiver and the 3.55 rear axle, to 7300 pounds with the V8 with the 3.73 rear axle.  The V6 can tow as much as 5390 pounds if it has the 3.73 rear end.  It is a combination of engine and rear end.

[zamboni]

Only if the Explorer has a V-8 in it. Now all the V-6 engine Explorers have a class 2 hitch and a flat 4 pin plug

As tlhdoc said, check the manual.  Actually, check your sticker -- it is a simple formula:  Does the vehicle have the towing package?

V6 or V8... if it has the tow package, it has a class-III and 7-pin plug.  If no tow package, even the V8 has a wimpy class-II.

Sure, it seems fatalistic, but smart for the manufacturer -- they want you to plan ahead.  If you intend to tow a heavy load, get the tow package (tranny cooler, etc).  Granted, the "normal" V8 could probably tow more than the tow-package V6, but perhaps not under stress and/or in hot weather.  Thus, the towing package is an "insurance" package for the manufacturer against warranty-repairs...

[Billy Bob]

Since the original poster was asking advice on a new USED TV I gave the facts what he is probably going to find out there. There are NOT too many Ford Explorers running around with class 3 hitches on. As you said they are planned ahead and ordered. The VAST amount of them are only set up with a class 2 hitch and a four pin plug.

However, as I advised, all Chevy Trailblazer are set up with a class 3 hitch and a seven pin plug. This will be a much easier USED vehicle to obtain ready to tow a PU even if it is tipping the 3,500 lbs scale.

[flyfisherman]

I'm sure this has been addressed before, but I would really like to get some input on this.  We will be buying a new (used) tow vehicle in the spring.  We currently have an "84 Dodge Ramcharger, an eight-cylinder.  It's a gas-sucking pig of a truck. We want to get something a little better on  gas milage. I'm assuming a four-cylinder would not be up to the job of towing a pop-up, so my basic question is about how a six-banger would perform.  We  live in Colorado, so I would like for responders  to factor in the fact that we will occasionally be taking it up mountain passes. The GVWR of our trailer is rated at 2550 lbs.  Any insight into what I should be looking at for our next TV would be very much appreciated!  Thanks, folks.  Brady

Let me ask ... are you thinking another pick-up or have your thoughts wondered somewhere else?

I've driven a pick'em up for so many years now I just don't know how to act in any other kind of vehicle!


Fly

[wynot]

Let me ask ... are you thinking another pick-up or have your thoughts wondered somewhere else?
 
I've driven a pick'em up for so many years now I just don't know how to act in any other kind of vehicle!
 
 
Fly

Fly-
If I remember correctly - Ramcharger is an SUV based off the Ram150. ;-)

[ScoobyDoo]

I'm just a dumb truckdriver but I think looking at the Tow Capacity is a waste of time. The first step in shoping for a replacement TV is load up for a trip and weigh what you got. Then weigh your TV empty. This will give you the weight of what you want to take with you.(total load).
   Add your TL to the curb weight of the ride you are thinking about, if that total is less than the GROSS COMBINATION WEIGHT RATING you are good to go.
you may have to move the weight around to keep your axles and tires right but that is do-able.

   Comparing "Tow  Capacity" from one vehicle to another is a pain in the donkey because you can't always tell what is allowed in the TV when you reach "max TC" .( do you have to deduct the power windows and seats?) The GCVWR is what it is.

[darkstar]

In response to Fly's question about what kind of vehicle I'm looking for, I offer this muddy train of thought.  I really am wide open.  I've never owned a pickup before, but if I could find one in my price range (under 5 grand), and if it was a crew or king cab, I'd be very interested.  We live a kind of rural lifestyle and a pickup would be most useful.
Another option that was suggested to me was getting a regular passenger car to drive around, and keep my RamCharger for 4-wheeling and towing the pop-up. It's an old rattletrap with lots of small (mostly) problems, and I guess that ideally, replacing it with another SUV or pickup would be the best option.  It's an '84, and I believe that if I can get something a few years newer, it should be better on gas.  This is the crux of the problem.  The RamCharger gets about 9 miles to the gallon.  I'd like to double that if I can.  Am I being naive to think I can do better for under $5000?  Thanks, folks...