PopUpGizmos? Anyone tried 'em?

[wavery]

The high wind models are better.  I sent my "regular" solar covers back to PUG and had them remade as the high wind version.  

What did they do to remake your regular ones??

I'm curious because we may buy new ones before we sew them on. If the only difference is the way that they attach, I won't waste my money on the high wind version. I believe that the material itself is exactly the same. If the material itself is superior, I may consider buying the High-Wind version.

[CampDirt]

I agree with Wavery. The High winds look like they strap down onto the hooks underneath the bunkends instead of clamped ontop.  If I'm using my hooks to hook down the canvas underneath, how do I get the PUG to hook underneath?  Are there extra hooks under there I don't know about?  How high a wind can these High Winds tolerate before flying off?  Just curious...

[wavery]

I agree with Wavery. The High winds look like they strap down onto the hooks underneath the bunkends instead of clamped ontop.  If I'm using my hooks to hook down the canvas underneath, how do I get the PUG to hook underneath?  Are there extra hooks under there I don't know about?  How high a wind can these High Winds tolerate before flying off?  Just curious...

I've had mine come off at about 15-20MPH winds. In a way, that's not a bad thing. It's better than having them rip apart. That's another reason that I am going to stitch mine on to the canvas seam binding. If one clamp comes off, you're up at 2:AM taking the things off in the dark (and possible rain) in your underwear and bare feet (I know.....I've been there). It allows enough wind to get under the Gizmo to make a sail out of it and the other clamps come off in pretty rapid succession. As long as you can keep the wind from getting between the Gizmo and the tent material, they will stay put and have no problems in pretty strong winds.

[tlhdoc]

The high wind covers are made out of the same material.  They have a bungi cord attachment over the end of the bunk.  If you are sewing your covers on I wouldn't worry about getting them remade.  I may have to think about sewing mine on.  That is a good idea.  I would leave the end unattached so I could clean/condition the vinyl under the cover.  

[PopupGizmo]

Hi All,

Don't sew the covers to your trailer. Many of you have had them for years but the bottom line is the canvas is stronger than our material.

One posted asked about where do the HW covers hook under the bunk. Every bunk deck has places where the clip hook on the end of the HW bungees can clip to...never had any problem with this on any trailer.

Does HW work better than standard in windy conditions? Yes. Clamping on the end of the bunks is always difficult due the lack of canvas material to get hold of with the clamps...the bunkend bow causes this. But with HW, you don't use clamps on the end. So no more problem getting clamps to hold.

Can HW covers blow off? Sure...anything like this will with enough wind. There are several variables that come into play...wind direction, trailer direction, surrounding structures causing upward wind deflection...the list goes on. But all said and done, by eliminating the clamps on the end of the bunks, the HW covers will resist wind gusts and windier conditions better than the regular covers in most cases. And most people also think the HW covers provide a nicer installed look too. That's last point is not technical, but it matters to many.

If I can answer any questions for anyone, anytime, just email or call me. I'll spend all the time you want talking about the pros and cons.

Thanksgiving cheers to all  !!!!!!!!

Bob Pitney
PopupGizmos

The high wind covers are made out of the same material.  They have a bungi cord attachment over the end of the bunk.  If you are sewing your covers on I wouldn't worry about getting them remade.  I may have to think about sewing mine on.  That is a good idea.  I would leave the end unattached so I could clean/condition the vinyl under the cover.  

[wavery]

Hi All,

Don't sew the covers to your trailer. Many of you have had them for years but the bottom line is the canvas is stronger than our material.

Thanks for posting.

I would prefer to ask questions in the forum because it may help people that have the same questions.

I would like to know why you say, "Don't sew the covers to your trailer".

I currently have mine clamped on and I never take them off. I don't like the looks of the clamps. Mine are rusty and I'm concerned about the rust bleeding onto my Sunbrella and I am also concerned about chafe.

I was planning on putting a single stitch of nylon thread where each clamp is. I wouldn't use real heavy thread so that if it got real windy the thread would break before anything would tear.

I just don't like getting up at 2:AM to put clamps back on that have blown off in a 15-20mph breeze. I don't like the idea of bungee cords either. A nylon strap may be acceptable but bungee cords stretch and may just allow the wind to get up under the Gizmos. I would be concerned that they would do more harm than good. Sunbrella chafes very easily too. I would think the action of a bungee stretching and relaxing, over and over could chafe a hole in the Sunbrella rather quickly.

[PopupGizmo]

Thanks for posting.

I would prefer to ask questions in the forum because it may help people that have the same questions.

I would like to know why you say, "Don't sew the covers to your trailer".

I currently have mine clamped on and I never take them off. I don't like the looks of the clamps. Mine are rusty and I'm concerned about the rust bleeding onto my Sunbrella and I am also concerned about chafe.

I was planning on putting a single stitch of nylon thread where each clamp is. I wouldn't use real heavy thread so that if it got real windy the thread would break before anything would tear.
I just don't like getting up at 2:AM to put clamps back on that have blown off in a 15-20mph breeze. I don't like the idea of bungee cords either. A nylon strap may be acceptable but bungee cords stretch and may just allow the wind to get up under the Gizmos. I would be concerned that they would do more harm than good. Sunbrella chafes very easily too. I would think the action of a bungee stretching and relaxing, over and over could chafe a hole in the Sunbrella rather quickly.

Hi Wavery,

I would be more than happy to discuss this here in an open forum. After all, this forum board is where it all started!

I'm going to try to keep my answers in the same order as your questions. Here goes:

Our material is not as strong as your canvas. Yes, it's very durable and can last for years, but it is not as strong as the top canvas. Also, though I do not know if this applies to you, sewing things to one's canvas could void the popup manufacturer's warrantees.

I leave mine on all the time too...much easier. As for your clamps, contact me off line and I'll replace your set.

I've had the HW covers blow off in 15-20 mph winds. I've had the standard covers stay on in 35 mph gusts. Those two examples are evidence that the variables of each given situation will have an effect as to how well either style of covers stay on. This is despite the method used to hold them on. I've been using a HW set of covers for almost two years now. In the last 24 months we've recorded 115 nights (I keep a log). In this time, the HW covers have blown loose twice...once in sustained 30+ mph winds that I was set up sideways too (added more clamps on the off wind side to solve the problem) and once when a storm blow in with reported 50 mph gusts. All in all, that's better than the years  I used the standards. However, the standard covers should not be under estimated...there are thousands of customers using them with completely satisfied results. It all comes down to numbers: Over time, the HW covers will give more consistent results (resisting wind) than the standard covers.

Bungees VS Non stretching cord: Yes, the bungees have some give in them. This is needed. Our material is not elastic. If it is stretched enough, it will not return to it's original state...it will remain stretched. This is also called "memory". That material has no memory. Once the material is stretched out enough, delaminating can occur and that's not good. So, it's better to have some give in the tied down system, i.e., the bungees. They can give and flex as needed to keep the stress that otherwise would be on the material down to a minimum. Now to avoid confusion, this principle does not apply to the clamps. They do not create any pulling pressure on the material. But when you hook up the bungees, you will introduce downward stress to the material so having some "give"  in this case is very important. However, despite having some give, the bungees do provide good holding power.

As for chafing: I will go so far (stick my neck out) as to say the chances of this happening are null. In the two years of heavy use that I personally have applied to the HW covers, there is absolutely no chafing or rub marks anywhere on my Sunbrella canvas that is in contact with the covers or the bungees. In fact, actual contact between the canvas and bungees is quite little. Also, in two years of offering the HW covers, I have never received info about or read on the Internet of such a thing happening. And I appreciate you concern about this. My Sunridge is 8 years old now with over 50K miles on it and more than a years worth of camp nights in it. I take very good care of her and understand the need to always be aware of potential problems. So your concern is respected. But based in quantifiable information, chafing will not occur.

I would like to point out, my replies to your posts are not intended to solicit sales of either style of cover system we offer...I'm not here to spam the group. Just want to offer info when I think it would benefit users of our products.

All said and done Wavery, they're your covers and your trailer and so of course, it's your decision.

Best regards,

Bob Pitney
PopupGizmos

[wavery]

Hi Wavery,

I would be more than happy to discuss this here in an open forum. After all, this forum board is where it all started!

I'm going to try to keep my answers in the same order as your questions. Here goes:

Our material is not as strong as your canvas. Yes, it's very durable and can last for years, but it is not as strong as the top canvas. Also, though I do not know if this applies to you, sewing things to one's canvas could void the popup manufacturer's warrantees.

I leave mine on all the time too...much easier. As for your clamps, contact me off line and I'll replace your set.

I've had the HW covers blow off in 15-20 mph winds. I've had the standard covers stay on in 35 mph gusts. Those two examples are evidence that the variables of each given situation will have an effect as to how well either style of covers stay on. This is despite the method used to hold them on. I've been using a HW set of covers for almost two years now. In the last 24 months we've recorded 115 nights (I keep a log). In this time, the HW covers have blown loose twice...once in sustained 30+ mph winds that I was set up sideways too (added more clamps on the off wind side to solve the problem) and once when a storm blow in with reported 50 mph gusts. All in all, that's better than the years  I used the standards. However, the standard covers should not be under estimated...there are thousands of customers using them with completely satisfied results. It all comes down to numbers: Over time, the HW covers will give more consistent results (resisting wind) than the standard covers.

Bungees VS Non stretching cord: Yes, the bungees have some give in them. This is needed. Our material is not elastic. If it is stretched enough, it will not return to it's original state...it will remain stretched. This is also called "memory". That material has no memory. Once the material is stretched out enough, delaminating can occur and that's not good. So, it's better to have some give in the tied down system, i.e., the bungees. They can give and flex as needed to keep the stress that otherwise would be on the material down to a minimum. Now to avoid confusion, this principle does not apply to the clamps. They do not create any pulling pressure on the material. But when you hook up the bungees, you will introduce downward stress to the material so having some "give"  in this case is very important. However, despite having some give, the bungees do provide good holding power.

As for chafing: I will go so far (stick my neck out) as to say the chances of this happening are null. In the two years of heavy use that I personally have applied to the HW covers, there is absolutely no chafing or rub marks anywhere on my Sunbrella canvas that is in contact with the covers or the bungees. In fact, actual contact between the canvas and bungees is quite little. Also, in two years of offering the HW covers, I have never received info about or read on the Internet of such a thing happening. And I appreciate you concern about this. My Sunridge is 8 years old now with over 50K miles on it and more than a years worth of camp nights in it. I take very good care of her and understand the need to always be aware of potential problems. So your concern is respected. But based in quantifiable information, chafing will not occur.

I would like to point out, my replies to your posts are not intended to solicit sales of either style of cover system we offer...I'm not here to spam the group. Just want to offer info when I think it would benefit users of our products.

All said and done Wavery, they're your covers and your trailer and so of course, it's your decision.

Best regards,

Bob Pitney
PopupGizmos

Thank you very much for your response. There's a lot of good information for everyone there. It is appreciated for it's intent.

99% of our camping is at SoCal beach CG. We camp at Pt. Magoo a lot. The wind blows pretty hard there in the winter months and we have had gusts up to 70mph on occasion. The clamps are rusty from the salt air. I wouldn't expect you to replace them nor do I want to use them.

I've done a lot of canvas work on off-shore cruising yachts and I have a lot of experience designing canvas covers to withstand high wind conditions. I'm also familiar with building covers so that they are not so strong as to damage the the material that they are designed to cover. However, I have never worked with the type of material that you use on the Gizmos. I have also never designed a cover to be put over another cover.

The one thing that I do know for sure is that if you can keep the air from getting under the cover in the first place, it eliminates a tremendous amount of stress on the fabric.

I feel comfortable with putting 1 stitch of #69 Nylon bonded thread about every 8-12" around the top. I'll just put the stitch right through the binding tape. I could take it off with a seem ripper once a year for cleaning, then replace the stitch. I'm not suggesting that anyone else try this. I am merely doing it as an experiment. I don't like dealing with those clamps. Although you have had good success with your attaching method on your HW model, I don't feel comfortable with it. Stitching it, once a year is more desirable for me than dealing with bungee cords during set-up & take down on every trip. Every step that I can eliminate in that process, makes me a "happy camper".

BTW, my PU is not under any warranty. It's a 4-year-old, 2nd hand Coleman.

[PopupGizmo]

Hi Wavery,

Sounds like your plan has been well thought out. Can you do me a favor? Follow-up with me sometime in the future and let me know how it works. (I expect it will work very well.)

As for the covers you have: I thought I read somewhere in this thread that you might get new ones before you sew. If that's correct, contact me about this. We can put together a program for you...we'll call it the  "Field Testing Sewn Attachment System"  discount/replacement program.

Enjoyed our exchange.

Best regards,

Bob Pitney
PopupGizmos

Thank you very much for your response. There's a lot of good information for everyone there. It is appreciated for it's intent.

99% of our camping is at SoCal beach CG. We camp at Pt. Magoo a lot. The wind blows pretty hard there in the winter months and we have had gusts up to 70mph on occasion. The clamps are rusty from the salt air. I wouldn't expect you to replace them nor do I want to use them.

I've done a lot of canvas work on off-shore cruising yachts and I have a lot of experience designing canvas covers to withstand high wind conditions. I'm also familiar with building covers so that they are not so strong as to damage the the material that they are designed to cover. However, I have never worked with the type of material that you use on the Gizmos. I have also never designed a cover to be put over another cover.

The one thing that I do know for sure is that if you can keep the air from getting under the cover in the first place, it eliminates a tremendous amount of stress on the fabric.

I feel comfortable with putting 1 stitch of #69 Nylon bonded thread about every 8-12" around the top. I'll just put the stitch right through the binding tape. I could take it off with a seem ripper once a year for cleaning, then replace the stitch. I'm not suggesting that anyone else try this. I am merely doing it as an experiment. I don't like dealing with those clamps. Although you have had good success with your attaching method on your HW model, I don't feel comfortable with it. Stitching it, once a year is more desirable for me than dealing with bungee cords during set-up & take down on every trip. Every step that I can eliminate in that process, makes me a "happy camper".

BTW, my PU is not under any warranty. It's a 4-year-old, 2nd hand Coleman.

[griffsdad]

We do beach camping and have been hit by high winds  - our POG stay secured with the little clamps that you can get at Home Depot - we put the clamps all around - and they work perfectly - no need to sew you POG to your canvas. The little clamps are pretty cheap too. And by the way we love our POG!!!

[PattieAM]

I bought the gizmos, and have used them this summer in 100 degree temps and they made a big difference in keeping the PUP cooler for sleeping.  I just took a chilly trip to NC and used them 'reversed', and could notice a difference as it seemed the heat in the bunk ends was kept in.

I'd like to see some kind of 'winter sock' that one could put over the bunk ends with windows in it!

[CampDirt]

Thank you soooo much for all the information!  We do get very high winds here in the Colorado Rockies, especially above 10,000 feet.  The bungies do make since now, and I'm strongly considering the HW versions in the spring.  Everybody seems happy with theirs.  I'm sure I'll be happy with mine.

Again, thank you PopupGizmo, for all that wonderful info.  Unfortunately, gotta wait 'til after the holidays (probably in Feb/Mar).  Medical bills, credit card, etc....

[mmeier71]

Call me crazy, but what if in the future, We would be able to zip them on to the tenting?  Probably would have to work with the manufacture company with that to have as a (option package) or a zipper kit? Just a thought!

[wavery]

Call me crazy, but what if in the future, We would be able to zip them on to the tenting?  Probably would have to work with the manufacture company with that to have as a (option package) or a zipper kit? Just a thought!

I thought of that too. I even considered using Velcro.

I think that it may be important to have the sides open, to "breath". I may be wrong but I think that making the covers air tight may defeat part of their effectiveness. I would really like to have some thoughts on that.