Second alien spacecraft photographed by NASA

[AustinBoston]

This is real, folks.

A few months ago, NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter took this startling image of what is clearly a robotic craft (with tracks) on Mars.  NASA has confirmed that it is an alien spacecraft.

Now, on the other side of Mars, another similar robotic spacecraft has been located and photographed.  The photo, showing the alien spacecraft and it's tracks, was also taken with the MRO.  See the new image here.

Somebody out there has a clear interest in Mars, and I don't doubt they are planning on landing on the red planet themselves.

Austin

[dthurk]

Interesting.  Our DD's major goal in life is to be the first person (woman) to walk on Mars.  She's already (at age 11) written to NASA and Eileen Collins for advice and direction to help her reach her goal.  We'll see what happens.  I had not yet thought of our DD as an alien.  I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

[AustinBoston]

UPDATE: These two alien robotic spacecraft are still operating.  NASA has also released photographs of two aparently defunct alien spacecraft.  It appears the older spacecraft have been on Mars for decades:

http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/mro/newsroom/pressreleases/20061204a.html

And today, NASA announced finding evidence of liquid water flowing on Mars during the last 7 years:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/mars/main/index.html

It's just a matter of time, folks.  Aliens on Mars, mark my words.

Austin

[AustinBoston]

Interesting.  Our DD's major goal in life is to be the first person (woman) to walk on Mars.  She's already (at age 11) written to NASA and Eileen Collins for advice and direction to help her reach her goal.  We'll see what happens.  I had not yet thought of our DD as an alien.  I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

My guess would be the most important thing (other than education) would be flight training.  Faced with a bewildering collection of otherwise qualified candidates, NASA will take the pilot every time.

Austin

[wavery]

Interesting.  Our DD's major goal in life is to be the first person (woman) to walk on Mars.  She's already (at age 11) written to NASA and Eileen Collins for advice and direction to help her reach her goal.  We'll see what happens.  I had not yet thought of our DD as an alien.  I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

It's fun to have goals in one's life. The reality is that the round trip to Mars is about 180,000,000 miles. Once you get there, there's not much to look at.

Sure, your name would go down in history......somewhere. If and when you get back, you'd be in the spotlight.......for a few weeks. You might even end up being a Senator or something :morning: .

I would love to go to the Moon but the time involved with getting to Mars, doesn't do anything for ME..

Don't discourage that enthusiasm though. Goals like that can be GREAT motivators. I used to dream about sailing a boat around the world. I couldn't get my mind off of it and it was a good motivator for ME. Everyone needs to find a motivator in their life.

[AustinBoston]

Don't discourage that enthusiasm though. Goals like that can be GREAT motivators. I used to dream about sailing a boat around the world. I couldn't get my mind off of it and it was a good motivator for ME. Everyone needs to find a motivator in their life.

I think you're selling both yourself and your point short if you don't say that eventually, you *did* sail around the world.

I'll bet it changed you in ways that you could never have imagined, too.

Austin

[wavery]

I think you're selling both yourself and your point short if you don't say that eventually, you *did* sail around the world.

I'll bet it changed you in ways that you could never have imagined, too.

Austin

Actually, that detracts from my point. It's the motivator that is important, not the accomplishment. Many people grow up with unrealistic or unattainable goals but the motivation makes a dramatic impact on their life. For instance, my grandson was absolutely adamant that he was going to play in the MBA. He started playing basketball at 6, with an enthusiasm that was unreal. There was NO DOUBT in his mind that he was going to UCLA on a basketball scholarship and eventually play for the Laker's.

It was a tremendous motivator to him and he has always been a straight "A" student, due to that motivation. Now, at 16 and 6'1", he has come to the reality that he cannot compete in the big league (because of his height). He was convinced that he would be 6'6" because I was 6'5". What he forgot to consider was that his dad is 5'11".

The good news is that he developed strong work ethic and a grade average that will get a scholarship at UCLA (or any other college that he wants to attend). He is extremely intelligent and highly motivated. I am convinced that it is because he had a goal and was motivated to attain that goal. Sometimes, learning to deal with failure can be good training and give a young person the ability to refocus, without skipping a beat.

I think that every parent should encourage their kids to get motivated on what they want to accomplish. Too many parents discourage their kids from striving to reach goals that they think are unattainable. The parent feels that it may be a waist of time. This deflates the young person's enthusiasm and they have a hard time, from that point on, finding something that motivates them. I feel that it is important that the young person is allowed to explore what THEY want to accomplish in life.

It is the development of motivation at a young age that is important. Accomplishing goals is a good thing but way over rated in my opinion. Some of the greatest people in history have dealt with many failures but are strongly motivated people.

[CampDirt]

OK, a question for NASA.  What happens when the two rovers meet?  
Can they greet each other? :W
Will they recognize each other?  :eyecrazy:
Or will they just start throwing rocks at each other? :swear:
 
Just a funny pondering moment....

[dthurk]

We're certainly not discouraging her, on the contrary, we've already discussed some of the things she might want to do and directions to go to make it a reality.  I agree with AB, most likely sometime within our lifetimes, an alien will walk on Mars.  It might as well be our DD, if that's what she wants.  We realize, of course, that it's highly unlikely that she will be the one, but as Wavery says, the path is the point.

[dthurk]

OK, a question for NASA.  What happens when the two rovers meet?  
 Can they greet each other? :W
 Will they recognize each other?  :eyecrazy:
 Or will they just start throwing rocks at each other? :swear:
 
 Just a funny pondering moment....

I vote for rocks.  At 1/3 gravity, it should be quite a slow fight.  If only there was a camera crew to record it.

[AustinBoston]

I vote for rocks.  At 1/3 gravity, it should be quite a slow fight.  If only there was a camera crew to record it.

I wouldn't expect it to be a slow fight - one can throw just as hard.  (Remember Alan Shepard, hitting the golf balls on the moon? "Miles and miles...")  But it could be a (relatively) long-range fight, because one could throw rocks about 3 times as far before they would come down.

The likelihood of being hit is low, unless one were caught by surprise.  Throwing rocks from three times the distance would mean three times the aiming error, and three times as long to get out of the way.  On the other hand, there would be some difficulty in finding smooth, water-worn rocks.  The uneven, jagged rocks that dominate the Martian landscape would not fly particulary straight, further reducing accuracy.  On the other other hand, the Martian atmosphere is much thinner, so perhaps the jaggedness of the rocks would not be important.

Hate when I talk myself in circles like that.

Austin

[brainpause]

I wouldn't expect it to be a slow fight - one can throw just as hard.  (Remember Alan Shepard, hitting the golf balls on the moon? "Miles and miles...")  But it could be a (relatively) long-range fight, because one could throw rocks about 3 times as far before they would come down.

The likelihood of being hit is low, unless one were caught by surprise.  Throwing rocks from three times the distance would mean three times the aiming error, and three times as long to get out of the way.  On the other hand, there would be some difficulty in finding smooth, water-worn rocks.  The uneven, jagged rocks that dominate the Martian landscape would not fly particulary straight, further reducing accuracy.  On the other other hand, the Martian atmosphere is much thinner, so perhaps the jaggedness of the rocks would not be important.

Hate when I talk myself in circles like that.

Austin

Would LOVE to see a baseball game on Mars' surface!

Larry

[AustinBoston]

Actually, that detracts from my point. It's the motivator that is important, not the accomplishment.

Motivators are useless if there is not the perception that ordinary people accomplish extraordinary things.  Christopher Columbus, William Clark, and Neil Armstrong all grew up from little boys.  They succeeded, not because they were motivated, but because they believed they could succeed and refused to give up.  I have no doubt that they experienced failure; that they changed their goals and dreams; that they allowed opprtunities to slip through their fingers; that they didn't always want to keep going.  But they believed there was something worth persuing, and they kept at it because of that belief.

Many people grow up with unrealistic or unattainable goals but the motivation makes a dramatic impact on their life. For instance, my grandson was absolutely adamant that he was going to play in the MBA. He started playing basketball at 6, with an enthusiasm that was unreal. There was NO DOUBT in his mind that he was going to UCLA on a basketball scholarship and eventually play for the Laker's.

It was a tremendous motivator to him and he has always been a straight "A" student, due to that motivation. Now, at 16 and 6'1", he has come to the reality that he cannot compete in the big league (because of his height). He was convinced that he would be 6'6" because I was 6'5". What he forgot to consider was that his dad is 5'11".

If he's given up because he's 6'1" then he's given up for the wrong reason, and he's given up too soon.  At 16, he could easily grow a couple more inches.  He'd never be the starting center at 6'1", but that does not mean he can't play in the NBA.  And even if he can't play, there are lots of people on the sidelines and in the locker room that never get into the game but are still a key part of the team.  I'd bet what he's really lost is the belief that he can get there, not the belief that he will get there.

The good news is that he developed strong work ethic and a grade average that will get a scholarship at UCLA (or any other college that he wants to attend). He is extremely intelligent and highly motivated. I am convinced that it is because he had a goal and was motivated to attain that goal. Sometimes, learning to deal with failure can be good training and give a young person the ability to refocus, without skipping a beat.

Eventually, failure will destroy anyone.  Failure, in the absence of hope, leads to a loss of all motivation.  Hope does not have to be specific, but it does require one thing - the belief that success is possible, no matter how unlikely.  When you leave out the fact that you were successful, you leave out the most important aspect of all - that success is possible.

I think that every parent should encourage their kids to get motivated on what they want to accomplish. Too many parents discourage their kids from striving to reach goals that they think are unattainable. The parent feels that it may be a waist of time. This deflates the young person's enthusiasm and they have a hard time, from that point on, finding something that motivates them.

In orther words, don't extinguish hope.

I feel that it is important that the young person is allowed to explore what THEY want to accomplish in life.

Just as bad as the parent who inapropriately discourages their child is the parent who steers their child into the dreams that the parent was not able or allowed to persue.  "Train up a child in the way he should go..." not the way the parent has pre-selected for him.

It is the development of motivation at a young age that is important. Accomplishing goals is a good thing but way over rated in my opinion. Some of the greatest people in history have dealt with many failures but are strongly motivated people.

Dealt with failure, yes, but went on to succeed, or we would never have heard of them.  

I would like to draw some important distinctions that might make my thinking clearer.

I'd rather have a child (I'm talking teen or older) with passion than motivation.  Lots of things can motivate - money, fame, power, avoidance of punishment, personal goals, etc.  There's no lack of motivation.  But there is only one thing that creates passion - the deep internal desire to achieve a dream or vision.  Money, fame, power may come with success, but it's not the motivator when passion is in the driver's seat.  Passion frees a person to take risks that would not be taken simply for the reward.  Motivation is valuable for achieving goals, but not worth much when achieving dreams.

I'd rather have a child with dreams than with goals.  This can be a bit more difficult to differentiate.  The reason is that the same thing can be a dream for one and a goal for another.  Let's look at "I want to be a doctor."  For the person who holds this as a goal, it is something to accomplish.  For the one who holds it as a dream, it is something to become.  Goals are like mileposts.  Dreams are inextricably locked up with who we are.  At the same time, there is far more personal risk with dreams than with goals.  If being a doctor is the goal, and it just can't be done, there are relatively simple alternative goals - just be a dentist or a therapist or something similar that's not quite as difficult (or not as expensive or whatever the problemm is).  Motivation may suffer, but it's not a big deal.  But when a dream dies, a part of the person dies.  It's a huge loss, a dramatic life changing event, but overcoming it creates a more passionate person, and new dreams, sometimes bigger than the old, can rise from the ashes.

I had a dream -a wish really- that I held for many, many years.  I did nothing about it.  I believed it was impossible.  I believed that "people like me" (i.e. ordinary people) can't become what I wanted to become.  As much as I wanted it, and as much as I was motivated, I had no hope of success.  But then something happened.  I started to realize that the bars in my prison were really just lines on the floor.  As soon as I started to believe I could achieve my dream, I was prepared to do whatever was necessary.  At that point, I took the first step, and discovered just how passionate I was about it.  It surprised a lot of people (including me), and caught them off guard, really.  There was a lot of interpersonal conflict.  Persuing that dream was going to be very expensive, and I'm not talking about money.  I eventually decided not to pay the price.

I would rather have died.  I ended up unemployed.  I could not even bring myself to look for work.  I considered ending it all, and even thought through the mechanism.  Eventually I decided I could not do that to my family, but still could not shake free of the loss.  It's the only major loss I've had that I have not really accepted, even to this day.

But it did open my eyes.  That failure changed me in ways I could not have anticipated.  I started seeing other people's dreams, and doing what I could to open doors for them.  

One of the first was Pjay's dream of a cross-country trip with the kids.  I made sure she took down her own invisible bars, and I made it even bigger than she had imagined.  Our whole family was changed forever by that trip, and one of the things it did was teach each of our kids that they, even though they are ordinary kids, can do big things.

In 2003, I lit another fire in PJay that she did not realize was there.  A shock to everyone we knew.  We packed up and moved to Minnesota so that she could finish the degree that she had put on hold for more than 20 years.  Today, she works with troubled teens, attempting to get their lives back on track.  I would give my right arm for her to be able to continue to do that.

But those two things came at a price.  When my oldest daughter got married, I knew she was marrying a career Marine, which meant she was never going to live near us.  If we had never moved out here, she would never have met him.  At her wedding, I was the only person - the only one - from my side of the family.  Her younger sister has spent less than six three months in Minnesota, despite the fact that she "lives with us."  She does everything she can to stay in Pennsylvania, and will even be married there instead of here in the spring.

I've lost my dream, and I've scattered my family.  Would I do it again?  Although there are things I would do differently, I think I would.  Because of the possibility of success.  Sometimes, there are huge consequences to passionately pursuing dreams.  That's why it is essential to include success with the story.  Who wants to risk making a big mess if there is no chance of success?

One thing that is related to both goals and dreams (but essentially worthless) is wishes.  A wish is a desire (whether goal or dream is irrelevant) with no action.  "I want to sail around the world" without ever getting in a boat is just a wish, and accomplishes nothing.

Related to all this is hope.  Hope comes in two forms, and I wish there were two separate words for them.  One form of hope is little more than a type of wish.  Hoping that the home team wins, or that the dice roll my way, or that the light changes before I have to stop - just a wish with motivation, but no ability or willingness to bring it to pass.  The other type of hope is based on the knowledge that the risks I take can pay off.  It's based on the belief that success is possible, no matter how remote.  Hope does not require examples of success - someone has to be the first at anything new - but thrives when there are such examples.  And passion - the best motivator - relies on hope.

Austin

[dthurk]

Kids. If they're not in jail, life is good.

[dthurk]

I wouldn't expect it to be a slow fight - one can throw just as hard.  (Remember Alan Shepard, hitting the golf balls on the moon? "Miles and miles...")  But it could be a (relatively) long-range fight, because one could throw rocks about 3 times as far before they would come down.
 
  The likelihood of being hit is low, unless one were caught by surprise.  Throwing rocks from three times the distance would mean three times the aiming error, and three times as long to get out of the way.  On the other hand, there would be some difficulty in finding smooth, water-worn rocks.  The uneven, jagged rocks that dominate the Martian landscape would not fly particulary straight, further reducing accuracy.  On the other other hand, the Martian atmosphere is much thinner, so perhaps the jaggedness of the rocks would not be important.
 
  Hate when I talk myself in circles like that.
 
  Austin

Actually, AB, I would disagree and expect the fight to be slower after all.  In lighter gravity, the parabola of the flight of the rock, etc. would be of a greater height than that in higher gravity to hit the same target at the same distance.  Given a constant "muzzle velocity" the time to travel that greater parabolic trajectory would take longer to hit the same target resulting in a slower fight.  Now if we were dealing with grenades, or some other kind of explosive device, the effect of missing with a "knuckleball" or "curveball" would be greatly reduced.  First one to figure out the trajectory wins.  Fight on!