Towing 3000lb PU with '01 T&C 3.8l help! Question

[babybober]

All:

I just purcahsed a PU ('98 sunridge) and loaded weight is probebly going to run about 3000-3200lbs (2350 dry) and I am trying to find out details of what I need to add to my 2001 T&C LXi. Yes, I know a Minivan is not the best TV but that is what I have (OK also have an explorer that can do it but 3 kids in the back seat is tight).  It has the 3.8l engine but NO towing package. With the towing package I know the rating is 3500 (or 3800 depending on who you talk to) (GCVW si 8600) . Without it it is 2000lbs/6600lbs. The question I have is what do I need to add to my vehicle. In looking up the origional option I see the towing package added the wiring harness (no big deal), Hitch (again no issues), Rear suspension leveling (I plan to put in a set of Timbren rubber springs to help there if need be but will be using a WDH so I may not need them), and the HD tranny/Oil/Rad cooler. In looking at the vehicle today, it does have a tranny cooler already sandwidched between the rad and A/C cooler but I am guessing they beef that up with the tow package? So is all that I need is a second Tranny cooler (aftermarket)? If so do I intall before or after the factory one or do I bypass the factory unit?  Lastly is it possible I am already set witht he cooler installed?

Thanks in advance

[tlhdoc]

I towed my 3000 pound PU for 3 years with a 1999 Ford Windstar minivan.  I had Timbren rubber springs installed to help with the rear end sag.  I do not know what is included in the Chrysler towing package, but the tyranny cooler is the big thing.  You will be running close to your max tow capacity if not being over loaded, so take your time getting where you are going.  Does your camper have brakes?  If so you will need to have a brake controller installed in your TV (tow vehicle) to activate the brakes.  Good luck and happy camping.  Feel free to check out the COTOC section of the message board and join us on any of our trips.

[babybober]

yep the PU has electric brakes so I am putting in a brake controller, forgot to mention that.  I know the minivan has a Tranny cooler already I just need to figure out if it is big enough or if I have to add another.

Thanks for the reply.

[wynot]

All:
 
In looking at the vehicle today, it does have a tranny cooler already sandwidched between the rad and A/C cooler but I am guessing they beef that up with the tow package? So is all that I need is a second Tranny cooler (aftermarket)? If so do I intall before or after the factory one or do I bypass the factory unit? Lastly is it possible I am already set witht he cooler installed?
 
Thanks in advance

In general - Tranny coolers aren't that big, especially compared to an A/C condenser, and I have never seen an external one put in-between the rad and condenser.  Normal order Rear to Front - Radiator, A/C, tranny cooler.
 
Traditionally, the stock (non-towing) tranny cooler is incorporated into the radiator, unless external.

[rccs]

I have a 1999 T&C LXI with the factory tow package. It has a oil cooler, a transmission cooler ,which I believe is a little larger than the non towing one comparing it to our other Dodge minivan, a heavier duty alternator and a full sized spare tire. Other than that the hitch and wiring hookup.

[wavery]

You can't have "Too much" tranny cooler.

Aftermarket units are not expensive (around $35-$100) and they are easy to install. You may have room in front of your radiator to add one. It doesn't matter whether you put it before or after the factory cooler. What does matter is that what you are looking at is actually a tranny cooler and not a power steering cooler.

It not only helps keep your transmission cool, it also helps keep your engine cool.

Make sure that you top up your transmission oil after installing it and make sure that you use the correct transmission oil. This is crucial on late model Chrysler products. I believe that yours uses a synthetic oil. It is NOT a good idea to mix any other transmission fluid with that. Check your owners manual for the ATF type (I believe that it is ATF-4).

[babybober]

Thanks All:
This is what I have been able to find out today.  I called the dealer and talked to the parts dept.  It seems that this model comes with a standard tranny cooler BUT it is too small for towing the heavy loads.  Mopar has a large HD cooler as part of the tow package for $148 (ouch!).  What this means is a lot of people out there have a false sence of security since they think they have a tranny cooler already and are all set.  They are not.  I have seen several posts saying all is fine if you have the tranny cooler in doing my research.

 I tore open part of the front of the van today.  Sandwiched between the very large AC cooler (this model have both a front and rear AC) and the radiator is the tranny cooler.  It is probebly only 5"x12", not very big although the holding bracket goes all the way across which is deciving. Also it would be a $*%&^ to get at.  Dealer said I could probebly put an aftermarket cooler inline with the standard one but to install it after the factory unit.  Looking at placement to do this I would have to block the existing systems, but it could be done.  The whole front cowelling and grill would have to come off by the looks of it.  YUK.

Next I called the tranny shop where I had work done before on my Explorer.  They instantly said yep you need a much larger tranny cooler, the factory one doesn't cut it.  I asked about putting one in series and was told you probebly don't want to do that because their isn't much room and you could block airflow to the other cooling items which would not be good since I would be putting extra stresses on the van anyway.  (note: a concern I had mentioned earlier).

They said they typically pull the existing tranny cooler and put a much larger one back in it's place in between the AC cooler and radiator.  Cost $175 complete.   So, I can spend $50 to $100 for a large HD cooler and several hours attempting to do this or let them do it for $175.  I need to have a tranny service done anyway so...

Bottom line, Looks like the tranny cooler is the main thing I need besides all the towing stuff (WDH, brake controller, wiring, etc.).

[aw738]

You can't have "Too much" tranny cooler.

Aftermarket units are not expensive (around $35-$100) and they are easy to install. You may have room in front of your radiator to add one. It doesn't matter whether you put it before or after the factory cooler. What does matter is that what you are looking at is actually a tranny cooler and not a power steering cooler.

It not only helps keep your transmission cool, it also helps keep your engine cool.

Make sure that you top up your transmission oil after installing it and make sure that you use the correct transmission oil. This is crucial on late model Chrysler products. I believe that yours uses a synthetic oil. It is NOT a good idea to mix any other transmission fluid with that. Check your owners manual for the ATF type (I believe that it is ATF-4).

This is correct for all 1989 and newer Chryslers. ATF+4 can also be used in older Chryslers as well. Look at my signature line and you will know how I know this. Also I work in an automotive parts store.

[wavery]

Thanks All:
This is what I have been able to find out today.  I called the dealer and talked to the parts dept.  It seems that this model comes with a standard tranny cooler BUT it is too small for towing the heavy loads.  Mopar has a large HD cooler as part of the tow package for $148 (ouch!).  What this means is a lot of people out there have a false sence of security since they think they have a tranny cooler already and are all set.  They are not.  I have seen several posts saying all is fine if you have the tranny cooler in doing my research.

 I tore open part of the front of the van today.  Sandwiched between the very large AC cooler (this model have both a front and rear AC) and the radiator is the tranny cooler.  It is probebly only 5"x12", not very big although the holding bracket goes all the way across which is deciving. Also it would be a $*%&^ to get at.  Dealer said I could probebly put an aftermarket cooler inline with the standard one but to install it after the factory unit.  Looking at placement to do this I would have to block the existing systems, but it could be done.  The whole front cowelling and grill would have to come off by the looks of it.  YUK.

Next I called the tranny shop where I had work done before on my Explorer.  They instantly said yep you need a much larger tranny cooler, the factory one doesn't cut it.  I asked about putting one in series and was told you probebly don't want to do that because their isn't much room and you could block airflow to the other cooling items which would not be good since I would be putting extra stresses on the van anyway.  (note: a concern I had mentioned earlier).

They said they typically pull the existing tranny cooler and put a much larger one back in it's place in between the AC cooler and radiator.  Cost $175 complete.   So, I can spend $50 to $100 for a large HD cooler and several hours attempting to do this or let them do it for $175.  I need to have a tranny service done anyway so...

Bottom line, Looks like the tranny cooler is the main thing I need besides all the towing stuff (WDH, brake controller, wiring, etc.).

babybober,

Check your owner's manual to see when they recommend a transmission service on your van. Also, I might caution you about using a transmission shop for servicing your trans. They typically put new transmission fluid into vehicles from their bulk tank. VERY FEW transmission shops stock ATF-4 fluid. PLEASE don't let anyone put anything else in your trans. It may damage it severely. Do a search on the WEB.

If you use a transmission shop, I would recommend going to the nearest Chrysler Dealer and buying 2 gallons of ATF-4 and stand there and watch them put it in. Also, don't allow them to flush your transmission. It is critical that they don't put ANY other trans fluid in that trans. It is designed specifically to use ATF-4 (synthetic fluid) and it should not be diluted with other fluids.

I learned this the HARD way. I let a transmission shop tell me that it was OK to use ATF-3 in my 2001 Chrysler. I later learned what it could do to my trans. I had to go to the owner of the transmission shop with a copy of the technical bulletin from Chrysler. I bought 4 gallons of ATF-4 and they changed the fluid in my trans twice (running it for 20 minutes between) to get 90% of the ATF-3 out of it. The fact is, it is still diluted and that's not good. Chrysler recommends not even "Topping off" with anything other than ATF-4.

As for the trans cooler. I put this one in mine. The trans shop wanted $300 labor. They said that they had to take the car apart to install it. I installed it myself in 1 hour. I didn't have to take the car apart either.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HAYDEN-AUTOMATIC-TRANSMISSION-OIL-COOLER-18-000-GVW-NIB_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33727QQihZ020QQitemZ300069703592QQrdZ1

[wynot]

Thanks All:
 
I tore open part of the front of the van today. Sandwiched between the very large AC cooler (this model have both a front and rear AC) and the radiator is the tranny cooler. It is probebly only 5"x12", not very big although the holding bracket goes all the way across which is deciving. Also it would be a $*%&^ to get at. Dealer said I could probebly put an aftermarket cooler inline with the standard one but to install it after the factory unit. Looking at placement to do this I would have to block the existing systems, but it could be done. The whole front cowelling and grill would have to come off by the looks of it. YUK.
 
Next I called the tranny shop where I had work done before on my Explorer. They instantly said yep you need a much larger tranny cooler, the factory one doesn't cut it. I asked about putting one in series and was told you probebly don't want to do that because their isn't much room and you could block airflow to the other cooling items which would not be good since I would be putting extra stresses on the van anyway. (note: a concern I had mentioned earlier).
 
They said they typically pull the existing tranny cooler and put a much larger one back in it's place in between the AC cooler and radiator. Cost $175 complete. So, I can spend $50 to $100 for a large HD cooler and several hours attempting to do this or let them do it for $175. I need to have a tranny service done anyway so...
 
Bottom line, Looks like the tranny cooler is the main thing I need besides all the towing stuff (WDH, brake controller, wiring, etc.).

I believe most tranny cooler installs are done in series following the factory one, since it is usually running through the radiator.
 
Especially on Chrysler products, the A/T is a major failure item, so it is important to keep it cool and change the fluid regularily.  You got me on the location, I've never seen one put in between like that, but from your description, that definitely is it.  Regarding location, I've seen these tranny coolers put in some very odd locations - after my shop installed it on my Windstar, they swore they would never do it again.  Another person I recommended them to had it done and they put the cooler in a high air flow location, but not in front of the radiator/condenser.  I think it was near the front wheel, protected but definitely in a high flow area.

[wavery]

I believe most tranny cooler installs are done in series following the factory one, since it is usually running through the radiator.
 
Especially on Chrysler products, the A/T is a major failure item, so it is important to keep it cool and change the fluid regularily.  You got me on the location, I've never seen one put in between like that, but from your description, that definitely is it.  Regarding location, I've seen these tranny coolers put in some very odd locations - after my shop installed it on my Windstar, they swore they would never do it again.  Another person I recommended them to had it done and they put the cooler in a high air flow location, but not in front of the radiator/condenser.  I think it was near the front wheel, protected but definitely in a high flow area.

When adding an air-cooled tranny cooler to a factory, air-cooled tranny cooler, I don't believe that it makes any difference if you put it in-line before or after the factory cooler. If someone says that it does, I would sure like to hear why it does.

I was rather amazed to learn that Chrysler claims that it is not necessary to change synthetic based ATF-4 because it is not effected by heat like petrol-based ATFs. However, I will stick to changing my filter and fluid at least every 50K miles (25K miles on petrol based fluids).

Chrysler has significantly improved the reliability of their transmissions with the use of ATF-4 and the transmissions designed to use it. I have heard that the biggest percentage of trans failures on Chrysler products built after 1999 has been because of people putting petrol-based fluids in the transmissions.

[babybober]

I was rather amazed to learn that Chrysler claims that it is not necessary to change synthetic based ATF-4 because it is not effected by heat like petrol-based ATFs. However, I will stick to changing my filter and fluid at least every 50K miles (25K miles on petrol based fluids).

.

Wavery:   This is true , sort of.  In my manual it states  for "severe" use (such as towing) or stop and go traffic regularly for 45min plus, etc....   change every 48000mi.
  They say in normal use, no need to change it but I think normal to chrysler means " only driven to church on sunny Sunday mornings by little old ladies"  

PS:  I will make sure ATF+4 is used .   THANKS

[brainpause]

I'm glad you are really taking care of your Chrysler transmission. They seem to be the weakest link in Chrysler products, and I have heard of many failures if not taken care of.

Also, something that you mentioned, but really hasn't been talked about much: Your brake controller. Most dealers and inexperienced tow drivers will try to sell you a Tekonsha Voyager or some other time-based unit. Insist, or buy for yourself, a Tekonsha Prodigy. Will save you money down the road.

Larry

[tlhdoc]

Also, something that you mentioned, but really hasn't been talked about much: Your brake controller. Most dealers and inexperienced tow drivers will try to sell you a Tekonsha Voyager or some other time-based unit. Insist, or buy for yourself, a Tekonsha Prodigy. Will save you money down the road.

I agree with Larry.  The Prodigy is the brake controller to buy.

[babybober]

I agree with Larry.  The Prodigy is the brake controller to buy.

OK all:   Time to open up another can of worms.   Why the prodigy?  I fully understand the difference between time based units and proportional units.  Proportional is the way to go (Larry, FYI, the voyager is proportional not time based).   The only thing I really see setting the prodigy apart is that it is self leveling instead of you having to manually adjust it on initial setup.   Also it has a cute little digital readout telling you what level the brakes are coming on at.  No offence but if it doing its job your eyes should be on the road.  

So why (other then install) is the prodigy SOOOOO  mush better then other properitonal units?