Nitrogen for the Tow Vehicle Tires ...(?)

[flyfisherman]

O.K., I admit it; I'm usually about the last to get the word on most things, but today takes the cake!

Go to my friendly GM dealer for an oil change (for sure, a super good car dealer, Bell & Bell Pontiac/GMC, Little River, SC) - they do good work, it's moderately priced and they keep you posted on the latest thing. When I showed up for the usual oil change today they told me they just got all the necessary equipment in for tires; they plan to stock some brands and really push for their customer's replacement tire business.  Just so happened last month I bought a new set of Coopers ... they said that's good, but what I should do is at least fill them with nitrogen in place of the air that was in them.  Told them I had never heard of such a thing but they countered that was what aircraft tires use.  And, they claim:
Nitrogen maintains tire pressure better, keeps tires cooler, prolongs the life of the tire and the vehicle will use less fuel. They also said that "tests" have shown nitrigen improves handling and performance, especially in the rain.
Here's the deal ... If I fill my tires with their nitrogen ($5.00) a tire and I get somewhere and need to put in more air (can do so even with the nitrogen in the tire), or have a flat and have to have the tire repaired and re-filled with air, just to bring the repaired tire with air in it and they will replace the air with new nitrogen at no cost.  In other words, they will maintain the nitrogen for the life of the tire.

So, I now have (4) tires presently filled filled with nitrogen (did'nt do the spare), and since I keep an ongoing log on gas mileage, will keep everybody posted as to what's happening!



Fly

[Dee4j]

O.K., I admit it; I'm usually about the last to get the word on most things, but today takes the cake!

Go to my friendly GM dealer for an oil change (for sure, a super good car dealer, Bell & Bell Pontiac/GMC, Little River, SC) - they do good work, it's moderately priced and they keep you posted on the latest thing. When I showed up for the usual oil change today they told me they just got all the necessary equipment in for tires; they plan to stock some brands and really push for their customer's replacement tire business.  Just so happened last month I bought a new set of Coopers ... they said that's good, but what I should do is at least fill them with nitrogen in place of the air that was in them.  Told them I had never heard of such a thing but they countered that was what aircraft tires use.  And, they claim:
Nitrogen maintains tire pressure better, keeps tires cooler, prolongs the life of the tire and the vehicle will use less fuel. They also said that "tests" have shown nitrigen improves handling and performance, especially in the rain.
Here's the deal ... If I fill my tires with their nitrogen ($5.00) a tire and I get somewhere and need to put in more air (can do so even with the nitrogen in the tire), or have a flat and have to have the tire repaired and re-filled with air, just to bring the repaired tire with air in it and they will replace the air with new nitrogen at no cost.  In other words, they will maintain the nitrogen for the life of the tire.
So, I now have (4) tires presently filled filled with nitrogen (did'nt do the spare), and since I keep an ongoing log on gas mileage, will keep everybody posted as to what's happening!



Fly

here are some links I found


http://www.automotive.com/features/90/auto-news/14858/index.html

http://www.komotv.com/news/consumer/4526971.html


reminds me of when I was a teenager when I worked in a gas station (back in the dark ages) when they still had a full service Island. I used to mess with peoples minds..  the  :confused: look I would get was great when they would come in and ask me to fill their tires I would ask "with regular or premium air"

[AustinBoston]

Just so happened last month I bought a new set of Coopers ... they said that's good, but what I should do is at least fill them with nitrogen in place of the air that was in them.

What they didn't tell you was that almost 80% of that air is um, nitrogen.

Told them I had never heard of such a thing but they countered that was what aircraft tires use.

Um, certain high-pressure military aircraft tires are filled with nitrogen.  The intent is to make sure they do not burn on the inside.  If you go to any airport, find the FBO, and ask about nitrogen in tires, he'll fall on the floor laughing.

And, they claim:
Nitrogen maintains tire pressure better,

Really makes no difference.  Since nitrogen is smaller than oxygen, (atomic numbers are 7 for N, 8 for O), and oxygen in air is found as a molecule (O2), it would be much easier for the nitrogen to bleed out than the oxygen.

keeps tires cooler,

Only if you are landing aircraft on a carrier.   Nitrogen absorbs slightly more heat than air, but once it is heated, it is heated.  A few miles down the road and there's no difference.  Nitrogen makes absolutely no difference in how much heat is generated in the first place.

prolongs the life of the tire and the vehicle will use less fuel. They also said that "tests" have shown nitrigen improves handling and performance, especially in the rain.

Did you ask for documentation?

Here's the deal ... If I fill my tires with their nitrogen ($5.00) a tire and I get somewhere and need to put in more air (can do so even with the nitrogen in the tire), or have a flat and have to have the tire repaired and re-filled with air, just to bring the repaired tire with air in it and they will replace the air with new nitrogen at no cost.  In other words, they will maintain the nitrogen for the life of the tire.

So, I now have (4) tires presently filled filled with nitrogen (did'nt do the spare), and since I keep an ongoing log on gas mileage, will keep everybody posted as to what's happening!

I had someone try to sell me this line.  Their poster sounded like the ads I see in old newspapers for things like Jone's Powder, which cures catars of the stomach, relieves the discomfort of rheumatism, prevents and relieves the embarrasing sag of the aging bossom, removes years from a woman's face, cures headaches, restores youthful vigor, and reverses bunions. Only (half a day's pay) per bottle at your local druggist.

While I seriously doubt they ever measured anything, I also don't believe nitrogen in your tires will do any harm.

My suspicion is whoever is selling the gear (and the hype) knows this will eventually end up as a class action suit, but he will have made his fast buck and disappeared by then.  Those who bought the gear will be left holding the bag.

Austin

[wavery]

Come on.......give 'em a break....they're a GM Dealer. They can't sell cars, so they have to sell something :J .

OMG.... Nitrogen in my tires......... :banghead:  what next :confused:

I think my first thought would have been.......OK, if the nitrogen changes the performance in my tires, what happens if I have a flat, in the rain and I can't get to a "nitro refill" :confused: . Is my car going to go out of control because of 3 ultra-performing nitro tires and 1 under-performing air tire? If they say, "NO", then they've just discredited themselves.

Hey Fly.....I have a bridge I wanta sell ya!!!!

j/k :J

SOMEBODY.....PLEASE...stop me....open the window and let me have some....uhhhh....air

[AustinBoston]

OK, I just did a web search on "air in tires" and was flabergasted at some of the claims.

"nitrogen is denser than air" - utter rubbish.  If that was true, all of our oxygen would rise in the atmosphere and we would suffocate on pure nitrogen.

"nitrogen bleeds out 3 times slower than air" - since air is 78% nitrogen, that means the oxygen would have to bleed out nearly 14 times faster than nitrogen.  But, uh, the oxygen molecules are bigger.

"prevents tire explosion in a crash" - pressurized gas is pressurized gas.  As long as you are not in the condensation area for the gas (something that requires either pressures that no tire would hold or temperatures that would cause tires to shatter with either nitrogen or oxygen), all gasses behave the same with regard to pressure and temperature changes.  This is basic high school physics.  The implication is that the oxygen in the tire causes the explosion, but that is simply not the case.

"By reducing the percentage of oxygen, water vapor and other gases in your tires from 22% to 7% or lower, your tires will maintain proper pressure longer than if you use

[flyfisherman]

What they didn't tell you was that almost 80% of that air is um, nitrogen.


(Yes they did ... 78%)


Really makes no difference.  Since nitrogen is smaller than oxygen, (atomic numbers are 7 for N, 8 for O), and oxygen in air is found as a molecule (O2), it would be much easier for the nitrogen to bleed out than the oxygen.


(They're saying just the opposite ... harder for the nitrogen to escape.)


Only if you are landing aircraft on a carrier.   Nitrogen absorbs slightly more heat than air, but once it is heated, it is heated.  A few miles down the road and there's no difference.  Nitrogen makes absolutely no difference in how much heat is generated in the first place.


(Again, they are saying just the opposite ... runs 20% cooler.  By the way, have you ever landed an aircraft on a carrier?  Just wondering what your experience was with aircraft.)



Did you ask for documentation?


(Of course ... and it's partial to the nitrogen related industry promoting this idea, would you expect anything less?)

http://getnitrogen.org/


While I seriously doubt they ever measured anything, I also don't believe nitrogen in your tires will do any harm.


(For twenty bucks it's worth it to me to see if there's any merit to it - and I'll know after some actual "down-the road" experience, which will probably not be  too long from now)

[wavery]

Now I'm gonna have night-mares :yikes: ......THANX Fly........... :J

I remember the day (not all that long ago) when we paid $.25 a gallon for gas. While the ATTENDANT filled my tank, he checked my oil, water and air in my tires. If my tires were low, he'd fill 'em at NO CHARGE!!!!!

Now, we go to a gas station, we pay $2.50 a gallon (10 x as much), WE pump the gas ourselves and no one checks or does anything. They don't even take my $. I have to use a credit card, which I swipe myself.

Oh ya!!! If I want AIR......I gotta pull the car over to the air-pump and pay $.50 for the use of the pump and if I need a gage to check the pressure......they'll sell me one.

God forbid that stations will put in Nitrogen pumps for your tires.......TRUST ME....if they do, the "Air-pumps" will soon be a thing of the past......like $.25 gas and all that service.

[flyfisherman]

Hey Fly.....I have a bridge I wanta sell ya

Well, ahhhh, howmuchdoyouwantforit?



Fly



p.s. See, that's the difference between me and you and OLD Austy Bosty ... for a $20.00 dollar bill I'll invest in some actual experience and come out with actual results.  Won't have to do a "Google" to come up with some hair-brained, pseudo-intellectual jargon, with -0- experience to back it up!  Besides, I think that cold out there has effected your "contempt prior to investigation" thought patterns.

[wavery]

I hear ya!!

I just choose to use that $20 bill a little differently.

I'll put it aside for an additional camp-out this year. I don't have that many years left to make that choice, so that choice becomes more critical each year.

I suppose that if people like me were to laugh off new ideas, over the years, we'd still be riding horses and camping in tents.

[flyfisherman]

Now I'm gonna have night-mares :yikes: ......THANX Fly........... :J

I remember the day (not all that long ago) when we paid $.25 a gallon for gas. While the ATTENDANT filled my tank, he checked my oil, water and air in my tires. If my tires were low, he'd fill 'em at NO CHARGE!!!!!

Now, we go to a gas station, we pay $2.50 a gallon (10 x as much), WE pump the gas ourselves and no one checks or does anything. They don't even take my $. I have to use a credit card, which I swipe myself.

Oh ya!!! If I want AIR......I gotta pull the car over to the air-pump and pay $.50 for the use of the pump and if I need a gage to check the pressure......they'll sell me one.

God forbid that stations will put in Nitrogen pumps for your tires.......TRUST ME....if they do, the "Air-pumps" will soon be a thing of the past......like $.25 gas and all that service.

Hey ... you ain't gotta patent on all those memories! I very well remember when my Dad bought over 8 GALLONS of gasoline for a buck to put into his brand new 1939 Chevrolet!  Also,  sure hate to throw some cold water on your air comressor thoughts ... but I understand there are now nitrogen compressors available - that could very well mean all those .50 cent compressors could be replaced with $3.00 nitrogen ones!   What another capitalistic money making idea!

[wavery]

Hey ... you ain't gotta patent on all those memories! I very well remember when my Dad bought over 8 GALLONS of gasoline to put into his brand new 1939 Chevrolet!  Also,  sure hate to throw some cold water on your air comressor thoughts ... but I understand there are now nitrogen compressors available - that could very well mean all those .50 cent compressors could be replaced with $3.00 nitrogen ones!   What another capitalistic money making idea![/QUOTE]

Welcome to the good old USofA.  :U



I'll bet the pumps are made in China :J

[brainpause]

This was hashed and rehashed on the SunnyBrook board I frequent, last year. They went back and forth just like we have done so far.

I have a BS in chemistry. I have a PhD in reading camping message boards.

I'm sticking with air.

Larry

[GeneF]

"I remember the day (not all that long ago) when we paid $.25 a gallon for gas. While the ATTENDANT filled my tank, he checked my oil, water and air in my tires. If my tires were low, he'd fill 'em at NO CHARGE!!!!!"

Gee, Wavery, maybe I serviced your car when I was a kid and I got $1.00 an hour for my labor.  You forgot to mention that I also washed your windshield and if the promotion was right, you got a free glass.


Also, I think you are slipping as far as "not a long time ago" was.  I think about 40 years ago.


I believe one of the big tire chain outfits use the nitrogen gas also.  I think it is Tire Warehouse.

[Dee4j]

so do you  want regular or premium air??? :J


sometimes you boys just kill me  

[wavery]

"I remember the day (not all that long ago) when we paid $.25 a gallon for gas. While the ATTENDANT filled my tank, he checked my oil, water and air in my tires. If my tires were low, he'd fill 'em at NO CHARGE!!!!!"

Gee, Wavery, maybe I serviced your car when I was a kid and I got $1.00 an hour for my labor.  You forgot to mention that I also washed your windshield and if the promotion was right, you got a free glass.


Also, I think you are slipping as far as "not a long time ago" was.  I think about 40 years ago.

I believe one of the big tire chain outfits use the nitrogen gas also.  I think it is Tire Warehouse.

Hey.....40 years is nothing. Man has been around for millions of years. 40 years....that's a heartbeat in time.

I made a $1.25 pumping gas. You should've pushed for a raise I forgot about washing your W/S.

OK, so now gas is $2.50 (10 x 40 years ago) and minimum wage is $7 (5 x 40 years ago). We're still getting the shaft. we won't even talk about oil company profits. Want a bet who is backing this "Nitrogen in the tires" scheme?