California PUP Owners, DMV Info Needed

[Weber Grill]

Well, I just returned from the DMV AND CHP office and they are both confused on the CA vehicle code.

I could make this a long juicy story but I will cut to the questions.  :compumad:

Please only CA registered owners reply.

1. What is your LENGTH of PUP (Bumper to tip of hitch)
2. What is the BODY TYPE designation on your registration (CCH or CMP)
3. What type of license plate do you have (PTI or annual renew)

My trailer is up to renew the registration and I am questioning if I can obtain a PTI plate. The Vehicle code is confusing at best but the info I pulled from the vehicle code says I can get a PTI plate but the nice lady   at the DMV says I don't qualify.

I am just curious what plates people have out there. Thanks in advance for your replies.

Patrick

[kimrb266]

I just talked to dh who knows more about these things than me and here's what he thinks.   When we purchased our 05 Niagara we had the PTI plate (14' box) that didn't need to be renewed for 5 years.  When we purchased our 07 HTT (24' closed) we didn't get the PTI plates.  He thinks that it depends on length/size and/or weight.  He agrees that he vehicle codes are confusing and he deals with them everyday.

What kind of trailer do you have?

[wavery]

We have a 2002 Coleman Tahoe, 12' box. I believe the the trailer is 16' end to end. If it's important, I'll take a tape measure to it.

We purchased our PU 18 months ago.

I have the pink slip in my hand and the Body Type is "CMP" . The Class is "AW" and the Registration Exp Date is, "PERM" (I guess that is PTI but it doesn't say that).

[dkutz]

ours is PTI.  its a 94 1020 starcraft  10 foot box not sure hitch to tail. We went to AAA and it was a piece of cake...

[wavery]

OK....Here it is.....straight from the DMV website:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/commercial/cvra.htm
Scroll down to where it says, "Trailers"

-----------------PTI explanation---------------------
Trailers

What trailers are subject to Permanent Trailer Identification (PTI)?

All trailers except park trailers and trailer coaches are subject to PTI.

NOTE: A camp trailer or fifth-wheel trailer (depending upon maximum length, width, or size) can be registered as a trailer coach, or camp trailer. Camp trailers are subject to PTI, but trailer coaches are subject to annual registration and excluded from PTI.
-----------------Camp Trailer Explanation---------------
242.   A "camp trailer" is a vehicle designed to be used on a highway, capable of human habitation for camping or recreational purposes, that does not exceed 16 feet in overall length from the foremost point of the trailer hitch to the rear extremity of the trailer body and does not exceed 96 inches in width and  includes any tent trailer. Where a trailer telescopes for travel, the size shall apply to the trailer as fully extended. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a camp trailer shall not be deemed to be a trailer coach.

Added Ch. 1536, Stats. 1971. Operative May 3, 1972.
------------------------------------------------------------------

*Note:

Color and bold emphasis are mine. :sombraro:

[Weber Grill]

Wavery,

This is exactly what I had printed (and some other things) and taken to the DMV and the CHP. I went to the DMV and at first they wouldn't even listen to what I had to say or read the code.

I finally had a manager review everything and he didn't know whether he could issue a PTI to me or not, he refered me to the CHP office.

I explained everything again to the CHP officer, and he to didn't understand exactly what type/size of trailers fell into the PTI description, he had a second office review and also pulled the DMV Manual which also stated basically the same thing as the actual code.

So, Wavery, how do you read the code?

I have a PUP that measures 19' from hitch to bumper, do I qualify the way you read the code?

Thanks for your input.

OK....Here it is.....straight from the DMV website:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/commercial/cvra.htm
Scroll down to where it says, "Trailers"

-----------------PTI explanation---------------------
Trailers

What trailers are subject to Permanent Trailer Identification (PTI)?

All trailers except park trailers and trailer coaches are subject to PTI.

NOTE: A camp trailer or fifth-wheel trailer (depending upon maximum length, width, or size) can be registered as a trailer coach, or camp trailer. Camp trailers are subject to PTI, but trailer coaches are subject to annual registration and excluded from PTI.
-----------------Camp Trailer Explanation---------------
242.   A "camp trailer" is a vehicle designed to be used on a highway, capable of human habitation for camping or recreational purposes, that does not exceed 16 feet in overall length from the foremost point of the trailer hitch to the rear extremity of the trailer body and does not exceed 96 inches in width and  includes any tent trailer. Where a trailer telescopes for travel, the size shall apply to the trailer as fully extended. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a camp trailer shall not be deemed to be a trailer coach.

Added Ch. 1536, Stats. 1971. Operative May 3, 1972.
------------------------------------------------------------------

*Note:

Color and bold emphasis are mine. :sombraro:

[wavery]

The way that it reads (to me)........ANY Tent trailer is eligible for PTI. That tells me that a "Tent Trailer" doesn't even have to conform to the size limitations. The size limitations appear to pertain to Other than Tent Trailers. For example.....a Travel Trailer that is 15' 10" long and less than 96" is eligible but a Travel Trailer that is 19' long is not because it is no longer considered a "Camp Trailer". However ANY tent trailer is considered a "Camp Trailer".

This paragraph seems to hold the key:
"All trailers except park trailers and trailer coaches are subject to PTI."

In other words, a trailer that can be lived in, in a "trailer park" would not qualify for PTI if it exceeds those measurements. This seems to say that no "Tent Trailer" would ever qualify to live in a trailer park, no matter what the measurements.

It seems pretty clear to me but I'm not a lawyer. We have a few of those around so stick around and maybe one of them may help out.

[Camping Coxes]

I have sent this link to my sister, also known as Miss DMV, around our family.  When she responds, I will post what she says.

 
I agree with Wavery -- it specifically mentions "tent trailers," AKA a pop-up.  Therein is your answer.
 
FYI, I have the PTI sticker for my 1998 Coleman Sunridge, 12' box.  I registered it at AAA and that's what they gave us.  The previous owners also had the PTI sticker.   (Even though I have the DMV connection, so I don't have to stand in the God-awful lines, I still use AAA for most easy things.)

[Azusateach]

So, is a HTT considered a "tent trailer" because of its pop-OUT sides?  Or do you go by length?

Laura

[wavery]

So, is a HTT considered a "tent trailer" because of its pop-OUT sides?  Or do you go by length?

Laura

I think that may be pushing it but I suppose that an argument could be made for that.

[OC Campers]

We have a 2001 Coleman Westlake.  Loaded weight 3,500 lbs/  We also have PTI tags on it.  They were sent directly to us by the DMV when they first started with PTI tags 5 years ago.  Our camper also has the 12ft box (probably 14ft with the front trunk).

Jacqui

[kimrb266]

What is the exact code? DH didn't know where to look in his Vehicle Code book but once he has it, I can have him look it up and see how he interprets it.

[Weber Grill]

Wavery has the code in his response on the 1st page of this thread.

Thanks to all of your responses, so far all of you read it the same way I do.

I currently am having a co-worker, who is our leagal counsel review it and run it by a couple of his connections. I am also e-mailing the Governor's office :U (no kidding, I really am).

What is the exact code? DH didn't know where to look in his Vehicle Code book but once he has it, I can have him look it up and see how he interprets it.

[wavery]

What is the exact code? DH didn't know where to look in his Vehicle Code book but once he has it, I can have him look it up and see how he interprets it.

Here is the veh code:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d01/vc242.htm

I'm not sure how to read these things but it appears to be:
Division 1, Section 242, Added Ch. 1536, Stats. 1971. Operative May 3, 1972

There is NO question that ALL "Camp trailers" are eligible for PTI. The question is the definition of a "Camp Trailer". This code gives the definition and states "includes any tent trailer". I just don't see how it could be any clearer than that.

NOW!!! the bigger question is........Is a HTT considered a "Tent Trailer". It is a trailer and the sleeping quarters are tents. I think that you could make a good argument. I'm just not sure that it would be worth the time and $. DMV would fight that for sure. However, if challenged, I think they may lose unless they change the wording in that rule. It says ANY tent trailer. It does not say, "Any folding tent trailer" or "any folding tent trailer with a maximum folded height of 4' ". To my knowledge Hybrids did not exist in 1972, when that was written.

[Azusateach]

Boy, if I had time and lots of extra $$, it would be fun to take this on.  I'd love to get those permanent plates for my trailer!