Lightning!!

[AustinBoston]

I agree that the chances are very slim.  The thing is, all you need is one path from the strike to the ground.  This is how lightning rods work.

And lightning rods also have AT LEAST 20 feet (usually more) of that thumb-sized conductor buried.  Even so, they still don't always work.

They conduct the strike to a thumb size wire then to the ground.  The trick is not beinig personally involved in the circuit.  Even in a car, if you are in contact with the steering wheel, gear shift, or other component, you can be part of the circuit.

Not if it functions as a faraday cage.  The largest Van DeGraaff generator (i.e. lightnigh machine) in the world is at the Theater Of Electricity at the Boston Museum of Science.  Take a look at the photos on their Touching Lightning page.  I have seen this show live several times.  The guy literally puts his fingers on the rod that is being struck by the discharge.  As long as he stays on the INSIDE of the cage, he is safe.  A finger on the outside would be removed by the artifical lightning.

BTW, if you ever get a chance to see this show, it is worth the price of Museum Admission in itself.  Just be prepared for some really LOUD bangs, and lots of them.

I learned this the hard way about 7 years ago while standing under the eave of a building during a thunder bumper.  OUCH!
Hmmmm, lightning "rods" for PU's.......

Not a faraday cage.  Does not apply to automobiles.

Austin

Edit:  I just read the MOS TOE site I linked to above and have to admit I've had the Faraday misconception they talk about.  I used to think of the Faraday Cage effect as an application of skin effect.  Apparently not.

In any case, skin effect is the reason a lightning rod that is a 1" thin-walled tube is as effective as a solid 1" tube - very little of the electricity travels inside the conductor, almost all of it is on the surface.

Austin

[JimS]

And lightning rods also have AT LEAST 20 feet (usually more) of that thumb-sized conductor buried.  Even so, they still don't always work.

The University of New Mexico has done some interesting research on the effectiveness of lightning rods.

Not if it functions as a faraday cage.  The largest Van DeGraaff generator (i.e. lightnigh machine) in the world is at the Theater Of Electricity at the Boston Museum of Science.  Take a look at the photos on their Touching Lightning page.  I have seen this show live several times.  The guy literally puts his fingers on the rod that is being struck by the discharge.  As long as he stays on the INSIDE of the cage, he is safe.  A finger on the outside would be removed by the artifical lightning.

http://transcripts.usatoday.com/Cha...ript.aspx?c=752

Read the above link.
He is still not part of the circuit, therefore safe.  If he grounds himself, different story.  Inside, outside, it doesn't matter.  If you are part of the grounding path, you are cooked.  Not too long ago, in L.A., a reporter was inside of her news van and was raising the comm link.  The pole hit some power lines and proceded to burn her arms off, inside the van.

Not a faraday cage.  Does not apply to automobiles.

Never said it was nor said it did.  My point was not being a ground path.  You can grab a hot wire as long as you are not grounded.  Birds land on high tension wires all the time.

[AustinBoston]

Never said it was nor said it did.  My point was not being a ground path.  You can grab a hot wire as long as you are not grounded.  Birds land on high tension wires all the time.

I have never seen anyone so capable of taking their own statements out of context.

Your original statement was:

Even in a car, if you are in contact with the steering wheel, gear shift, or other component, you can be part of the circuit. I learned this the hard way about 7 years ago while standing under the eave of a building during a thunder bumper. OUCH!
Hmmmm, lightning "rods" for PU's.......

My links proved the bold part is utterly false (my original statment was beacue of the Farady Cage effect, but in fact it is skin effect), then I say why your experience does not apply to the inside of a car.  I'm not claiming that you said it was a Faraday Cage.  I proved my point that you ARE protected in a car, even if touching the "steering wheel, gear shift, or other component," and that your experience does not apply.

http://transcripts.usatoday.com/Cha...ript.aspx?c=752

"The page cannot be found"

Read the above link.
He is still not part of the circuit, therefore safe.

The only thing that keeps him from being a part of the circuit is the skin effect.

If he grounds himself, different story. Inside, outside, it doesn't matter. If you are part of the grounding path, you are cooked.

You really don't know what you are talking about, do you?  How could he NOT be grounded?  The spark the guy is dealing with just jumped 16 feet.  The 1/2 inch through the soles of his feet to the grounded steel floor is not going to stop that spark.  But skin effect will redirect it.

Not too long ago, in L.A., a reporter was inside of her news van and was raising the comm link. The pole hit some power lines and proceded to burn her arms off, inside the van.

You clearly did not read the links I provided.

Let me quote:
[INDENT]In fact, not only are you safe inside the car, even the inside of the metal car BODY is safe, a fact we demonstrate by touching the inside of the cage bars while it is being struck. The outside is not safe, however, so if your hand were to go through the bars you would get struck (something that has happened to several of us at one time or another--it hurts a lot, like hitting your funny bone but about ten times worse--though the current is so low that there is no permanent damage. The hardest thing for the demonstrator in such cases is to remember not to say something bad since the microphone is still on![/INDENT]

Lightning is extremely high frequency energy, and therefore follows the skin effect.  High tension wires are the opposite extreme, being close to the extremely low frequency range.  If you don't think those newsvans are carefully designed to deal with lightning, you are sadly mistaken.  OTOH, they train the operator not to raise the boom into high tension wires.

Austin

[JimS]

I have never seen anyone so capable of taking their own statements out of context.

Your original statement was:



My links proved the bold part is utterly false (my original statment was beacue of the Farady Cage effect, but in fact it is skin effect), then I say why your experience does not apply to the inside of a car.  I'm not claiming that you said it was a Faraday Cage.  I proved my point that you ARE protected in a car, even if touching the "steering wheel, gear shift, or other component," and that your experience does not apply.




"The page cannot be found"



The only thing that keeps him from being a part of the circuit is the skin effect.



You really don't know what you are talking about, do you?  How could he NOT be grounded?  The spark the guy is dealing with just jumped 16 feet.  The 1/2 inch through the soles of his feet to the grounded steel floor is not going to stop that spark.  But skin effect will redirect it.



You clearly did not read the links I provided.

Let me quote:
[INDENT]In fact, not only are you safe inside the car, even the inside of the metal car BODY is safe, a fact we demonstrate by touching the inside of the cage bars while it is being struck. The outside is not safe, however, so if your hand were to go through the bars you would get struck (something that has happened to several of us at one time or another--it hurts a lot, like hitting your funny bone but about ten times worse--though the current is so low that there is no permanent damage. The hardest thing for the demonstrator in such cases is to remember not to say something bad since the microphone is still on![/INDENT]

Lightning is extremely high frequency energy, and therefore follows the skin effect.  High tension wires are the opposite extreme, being close to the extremely low frequency range.  If you don't think those newsvans are carefully designed to deal with lightning, you are sadly mistaken.  OTOH, they train the operator not to raise the boom into high tension wires.

Austin

Whatever, I'm not going to mince words with you.

[JimS]

Another good link with lots of info:
http://www.lightningtalks.com/LightningSafety.htm