adjusting the lift cables - rear roof higher than front when closing?

[ScouterMom]

I replaced all the cable in my 73 starcraft last spring - took the whole system apart and it seems to work well, except for two things.  

The single eyebolt which goes to the main winch cable is bending open on the cable harness (not sure what else to call it) - this piece:



I have replaced it once, and have a die cast one to replace it yet again.  but the bending is telling me that something is being forced.

this may be related to the 2nd problem -
When I lower the roof to pack up, and the cable is completely released from tension, the back two roof corners want to stay up and not telescope all the way down, leaving the middle section of telescoping poles open about 2".  The canvas is folded in, and there is plenty of space - there's nothing 'inside' that is holding it up (like bedding or canvas or poles) - it's that the posts don't want to go down all the way.  I can push the roof down and latch it, but I'm putting alot of pressure on the rear latches to do so.

I'm thinking that despite measuring cable very carefully, that my rear cables are either too short or too long.  and is it the long cables that run underneath? or is it the short piece of cable that is enclosed inside the post?  

When I replaced the cables, the old ones were in pieces and none were in a single piece to use as a guide for length.  I got the directions from Starcraft, but they didn't give any guidelines as to length, as the plans were for campers of all sizes, not specific to my model and year.  I made the cables for all four posts the same length - roughly twice the height of one section of telescoping post. I had to guess, and think I did pretty good as it works, but I think I need to change length somewhere in back, and am not sure what to tackle first.

I'm thinking I need to lengthen the rear cables a bit to loosen, but do I lengthen the ones inside the posts? or the ones that run under the body of the camper?

----

or is my logic all wrong and it's something else causing the rear to not close and the eye bolt to bend?

laura

[brainpause]

Did you use exactly the same size cable? If not, it may be binding on the pulleys, and possibly binding in other areas.

You are right in assuming that something is under great tension (unnecessarily) to cause the eyebolts to open. They are under a lot of tension anyway, so any added tension will just cause problems.

Are (Were) there turnbuckles under the camper to adjust length? If there are (were), then they may have reached a pulley or some other stopping point, if you made your cables yourself. That's what I ran into when trying to make my own cables.

Make sure the cables are lubed up really well, especially pulleys so they will turn easily. That can cause serious binding if not turning easily.

To answer one of your specific questions, IIRC, the short cable is on the inside of the post in our camper, but our lift system is different. Here's our lift system diagram:



What would I do? I'd do what I DID do with our restoration: Get Starcraft original cables. They are pretty cheap and exactly the length you need. Call your local Starcraft dealer, or even the Starcraft parts dept with your model number AND your VIN#. Starcraft drop shipped the parts to me, and it made cable replacement much easier, rather than worrying about length, etc.

Larry

[austinado16]

Excellent post Larry.  I like your diagram too.

Scoutermom, you might try crawling under and watching the cables as your bf cranks the roof up and then down.  I'll bet if you watch the action of all 4 cables, you'll understand what's going on better.  

Maybe it's something you can fine tune with the 4 turn buckles, and maybe as Larry suggests, you simply need to order from StarcraftRV.

I'd take a look at function first, and then come up with a game plan.

[brainpause]

Should you get under there to watch during cranking, wear safety glasses. I did, and I'm typing right now because I was.

Larry

[ScouterMom]

Last time we were camping up in Sheboygan, I got to check out another old starcraft - a 74 Starmaster 8, same box size as mine, different floor plan - this one was in excellent shape, as it had been in one family the whole time and passed down to their kids.  I found out from theirs that what I had put on mine for cable WAS the same guage as the original. I had gone to a larger size than what was on the camper when I got it, but it had been replaced with undersized cable - probably why it broke up so badly.  these people had replaced two cables and some of the vinyl pulleys, but still had over half of their original system.  So I know I've got the right stuff, even if I crimped the ends myself.

I 'could' get all new stuff from starcraft -10 yrs ago I did get original cables from them for one corner and a few replacement pulleys for our little starlette camper, and you are correct, they worked perfectly.  Actually, I didn't need one of the pulleys back then, and still have it.... somewhere..... but I am on a tight budget.  It may be 'cheap' to you to get the parts from starcraft - but with all the work this camper needed, If I had purchased starcraft parts, at $15 per pulley and around $40 per corner for pre-fitted cable, it would have cost me half the price I paid for the camper just to  buy the parts - and that's not counting the main cable, either.


Everything suggested above was done; everything had been oiled and cleaned when I took it all apart. It IS possible that a pulley is binding, and I will check that - I ended up not replacing the pulleys as they all seemed to be working pretty well after they had been cleaned up. There was one or two that the original vinyl wheels were a bit chewed from the shreaded cables, but not badly.  A few had already been replaced with the newer metal wheels when the previous owner tried to fix the lift system. I deliberately put the 'worst' pulleys back in the rear lifter posts, as we took out the cabinets back there, and they are the most acessable if I needed to get back into them and replace/repair a pulley. looks like that might be a possibility.

Our diagrams did not include any turnbuckles, (nor did our other starcraft) the cables are supposed to be adjusted by the eyebolts.  Supposedly, 1" of adjusment to the eyebolt will adjust the roof by 2".  (that's why they are 4 1/2 " long) the cables run from the triangle/harness piece shown, thru pulleys under the floor and up into the poles, over a pulley in the first section of telescoping post, and attach at the base of the 2nd section to lift it.  The 2nd and third sections are connected by a short cable and a pulley.  so if the poles aren't collapsing down enough,and it's NOT a bound up pulley, I'm thinking that one of those cables is too short?  and since all the posts for all four corners are exactly the same , and i made the interior-of-the-post cables all the exact same length, I'm thinking that it might be that the long cables need to be lengthened?

We did crank them up quite a bit trying to get the roof high enough for the door when we were originally adjusting it, but if we make the roof lower this way, then the door might not fit again!

Guess I just need to find some rain free and 'skeeter free time to take it apart again....

Laura

[brainpause]

I just thought of an easy way to see the pulleys movement. It might be hard under there. Put a dot of Liquid Paper (or bright nail polish) on the bottom side, and you should be able to watch it easily then.

I understand the tight budget. Been there, done that, and I respect that problem. Have eaten beans and rice that didn't belong to me (but they did belong to Citibank or Capital One or somebody).

You are right in that the eyebolts act like my turnbuckles. If the turnbuckles are maxed out, then you will probably just have to redo the cables. Be careful turning the eyebolts (or do they turn with the nut?). If you turn the eyebolt itself, the cable will unwrap.

On edit: If the main part is in the camper as in the picture above, you can probably tighten the (rear) cables so that less thread is on the side of the eye, and that would make the rear part of the roof go up. Matter of fact, this may be the source of your main eyebolt bending: Much of the roof's weight may be on the front two cables, putting more strain on the main eyebolt. Does this make sense? I'm tired and getting over a headache.

Larry

[zamboni]

If I had purchased starcraft parts, at $15 per pulley and around $40 per corner for pre-fitted cable, it would have cost me half the price I paid for the camper

if the poles aren't collapsing down enough,and it's NOT a bound up pulley, I'm thinking that one of those cables is too short?

First >> Length:
If the roof is going down, and your crank stops but the roof NEEDS to go down more, then the cables are too short.

If the roof stops, but the crank has more "lee-way" in it, and can crank more, then something is preventing the roof from coming down more (and thus, taking the strain from the cables, making your crank "tight").

I agree with others:  If the cost difference is not too much, it is worth it to get Original Equipment Manufacturer parts (OEM, for us computer geeks).  That way, you ensure it works, and you have many years of problem-free use.

If money is tight, and it will make a difference, let me know -- I'll chip in $50 to help you get OEM cables and eliminate your problems.  I know I've been helped many times in my life by others, and helping someone else enjoy a Starcraft (what I grew up in) is a fair way for me to contribute.

[brainpause]

Heck, with an offer like that, I'll chip in another $20. That and zamboni's donation will get you about 4 cables and/or whatever else you need to get this thing fixed.

If you have a PayPal account, I could have it to you in moments.

Larry

[ScouterMom]

I've been on the 'net a long time, with some different groups of people - but I am still touched and amazed by the friendship and generosity I consistently find from friends whose faces I just have never seen in person!  :#

I appreciate the offers - the encouragement in the projects, especially.  I think I can make it work, though - If I can't, I'll let you know.  But Knowing that you would reach out like that means so much to me!

I've also got a bunch of hardware, bought for projects and not used, that I bet I could still return to the store to pay for parts if I need them.    (I save ALL receipts, just in case - I have a fat file of 'camper paper' - Ideas, brochures, receipts, drawings, etc.)  There's a saying in the hardware/home improvement business - you can always tell the 'new' do-it-yourselfers by the number of trips back to the store it takes them to do a project.  The pros know exactly what they need, and have it on hand; and the ones in between (like me) buy some of everything and return the leftovers (or keep them to stock their stash! :J )

Actually, the trip we were trying to get ready for this weekend - canoeing on the Wisconsin river, and using the PUP as a canoe trailer, has been cancelled due to high water and overflowing dams on the river.  There's probably no sandbars to camp on. So I will be spending the weekend at home, in camp driveway (as it's too late to get reservations for a regular campground site for the camper after work on Friday).  

The rain here has been a real pain - keeping me indoors - it's even hard to work in the garage as the mosquitos are so awful here! ( and they LOVE me - I get bitten when no one else does ) and with the swarms that have hatched here, even people that usually don't get bitten are being 'bugged'.

But that's OK - there's alot of stuff to do around here - and I can work on the camper, INSIDE  - I've got loads of little projects that need to be finished. And supplies for them already in the garage.  The bike/ canoe rack; the door latch, the open electrical hole to fix, and removing the cabinets for the flooring, & projects in the house, too.

 I've been working on organizing the garage ( & putting all the tools back on the wall so I can FIND them!) so we could get the camper back inside if the rain keeps up- and I actually found the one Starcraft pulley I never used on the  old Starlette!  so If I do need a new pulley somewhere, I've got one. I opened up the back lifter arms, and it doesn't look like anything is not turning or that cable is binding or coming off the pulley wheels.  (I used Larry's nail polish idea)   But I do think that it's possible that the long cable might be too tight underneath.  Paul said that we did tighten some quite a bit to get the roof high enough for the door to fit, so there may be room to loosen it up and solve the problem without having to get longer cables.

It's weird, though - the lift system directions  :book: said that the roof should be 42 " from top of camper body to bottom of roof - but when we used that height, the door would NOT fit.  :confused:  This door is rigid - the starlette had a spring arrangement at the top that allowed for a bit of height difference in the roof.  We had to adjust the roof up about 1" higher to make the door fit (and it's still tight).  As I'm typing, it just occurred to me - maybe the center of the roof where the door  frame is , is sagging? it doesn't LOOK like it sags that much, but maybe that's part of the problem? At 35 yrs old and neglected, there isn't anything on this camper that I would expect to be straight or square anymore! :p It's something I'll have to check this weekend.

ANyway - I'll keep you all posted.  And thank you SO MUCH for your kind offers!

Laura

[bassknuckles]

click on the link below and then the album on cable replacement. I have the original diagrams you may need!

http://community.webshots.com/user/richinny

[wavery]

I thought of this thread when we were packing up to go home last weekend.

We got the TV all packed, everything in place in the PU, slid the bunks in and cranked the top down......... :yikes:   the back end of the roof stuck up in the air about 3" :yikes: .

I immediately thought of this thread. I thought, "OMG....my cables got messed up". We went around and checked all the canvas......all was OK. Tried it again....still wouldn't go down :confused: .

We ran the top back up a couple feet......low and behold...there was the galley waste basket sitting on top of one of the bunks :eyecrazy: . Removed the basket and the top lowered perfectly. :-() . I chuckled half way home. :sombraro:

[ScouterMom]

Wayne -

that's funny! LOL!   Wish my problem were that simple!

Rich - Brassknuckles -

Where did you find those diagrams?  I got some off the web - they say they are from Starcraft and they match yours - mostly - but mine are not nearly as detailed and the diagrams are very poor reproductions, very faint and the lines are almost undecipherable.

could you e-mail me directly?  I would really appreciate it if you could scan those diagrams and e-mail them, or I could send you a self addressed, stamped envelope if you could make good photocopies for me and mail them back to me.

My e-mail is lauraT7@sbcglobal.net

thanks!

laura