700 Billion to bail out the banks

[austinado16]

Except that the ag industry employes non-Americans other than the person/familiy/company, that own the operation.  Otherwise, 99% of the employees are foriegn.  So we're still not really producing anything.....it just happens to be grown in our soil.

Along with the need for home production, we'd need "home bought" which would mean we'd have to quit importing everything.

How you gonna get 99% of the population out of the Walmart/Target/KMart mode.  No way that's ever going to happen.

Who's gonna buy and American made/made in America TV for $800 when the same or better TV coming out of Sony, but made in a villiage in Mexico is $239 all day long.

There's just no way to compete against labor forces staffed by people who are willing to work for $1 a month, live in cardboard boxes, and exist in slum of methylethylbadshit because they don't know any better, and their country doesn't care.

If anyone can get their hands on it, there's a fantastic documentary filmed by a couple of hispanic gals about their life in Mexico working for Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, Sanyo, etc.  You can bet it's no better at the Volkswagen, Chevy, Ford, Fruit of the Loom, or any other plants down there.

[austinado16]

I never would have expected this:

"By a vote of 228-to-205 the House of Representatives rejected a compromise plan that would have allowed the Treasury Department to buy up toxic debt from struggling banks"

[wavery]

I never would have expected this:

"By a vote of 228-to-205 the House of Representatives rejected a compromise plan that would have allowed the Treasury Department to buy up toxic debt from struggling banks"

I'm glad it failed. The US gvm't should not get involved in private enterprise.

The stock market lost a trillion dollars today. That's more than the cost of this rescue package. Guess what.......the stock market is still higher than it should be. The gvm't has been meddling with interest rates and encouraging debt to bolster the stock market for years. The DOW would only be at 10K if you analyze a 30-year chart of healthy growth. This country has not had healthy growth over the last 6 years (it's been phony growth encouraged by consumer debt) but the DOW has continued to increase because consumers are buying more with higher debt. THAT IS NOT healthy growth. IMO the DOW should be at about 8K today.

Consumers have refinanced their homes, taken out every dime available and spent that money to bolster our phony economy. Our economy has been surviving on, gvm't induced, consumer debt for 6 years. The interest on this debt has cost consumers far more than if the gvm't would have kept their nose out of the economy and let the normal business cycle take it's toll.

Now that housing prices are adjusting to be more realistic, people that refi'd at higher values, took the money and bought goods, are in big trouble. They are finding they owe more than the house is worth. They are bailing on their obligations that were encouraged by the gvm't and now the gvm't wants to bail out the banks from failing due to bad debts that were encouraged by the gvm't in the first place.

ENOUGH GVM'T MEDDLING. The gvm't created this with meddling now they want to cure it with more meddling.... :eyecrazy:  Give me a break.....

There are a lot of people that would not have the toys and big homes that they have today but the economy would be real and consumers (and the gvm't) would not have the burden of debt that they have today (3 trillion dollars).

The longer this problem is strung out, the more painful it will be when it corrects. Borrowing money to pay debt is not the way to handle a financial crisis. I don't care if we are talking on a personal level or gvm't level. The bottom line is......we have to go back to work. We need to work harder for less and demand American products. Until that happens, we will continue to lose in this "World economy".

[WolfPack]

I would have to agree with you. like  if overdraw you checking acc you have fix the problem to get acc back in the black and if you get behind on your bills you to fix the problem the gov not going to help. i hope the FBI find somrthing out they are looking into it to. and they should have to fix there problem not we the tax payer.

[wavery]

I think that a lot of people are confused about what is going on here.

Banks are limited in the amount of $ that they can lend and it is predicated on deposits balanced with assets and liabilities. When a bank lends $ that $ is accounted as an "Asset". The banks must balance assets with liabilities. When the liabilities (foreclosures) get to high compared to assets (loans in good standing plus deposits) the banks flirt with bankruptcy. Banks must stop lending $ at that point.

With all of the foreclosures that have happened in the last year, there are many banks that are running out of $ to lend. This causes a credit crunch and limits SOME consumers and businesses from getting new loans (poor risks).

When that happens, consumers (with questionable credit) can't buy on credit and businesses, that are not profitable, can't borrow $ for payroll and inventory.

Now you understand the problem.......what is the cure??? Do we cure this by taking tax $ and buying bad debt from the banks so that the banks can continue to make new loans to questionable risk consumers and businesses and drive consumers farther in debt?

If there was any sign that this economy would be energized by this activity I would say yes. However, there is NO sign of positive economic production by taking this coarse. In fact, it detracts from personal accountability and farther destroys people's reality of what is happening to our nation. This will merely encourage poor decision making.

Trust me, consumers and businesses in good standing will be able to borrow if needed. All this bail-out will do is extend the amount of time that it will take for poorly run businesses to fail and increase the amount of debt that consumers will not be able to pay back. The longer this goes on, the worse the problem will get.

I say write your Representatives and tell them..."NO" to any tax payer bail-out. It is irresponsible and encourages irresponsible spending. Debt is a disease in this country and it must be cured not encouraged.

Obama got on the air today and said, "This is not a bank bail-out" then went on to say that this is a rescue measure for our economy. I'm sorry....that makes no sense. When tax payers buy debt from banks so that they can continue to lend $, what do you call that??  "BANK BAIL-OUT". There is no other name for it. A thorn by any other name is still a thorn.

A sure sign that politicians think that the people are stupid is this new plan that increases the FDIC protection to $250K :eyecrazy: . What kind of joke is that? If there is a run on the banks, there is NO WAY that the FDIC could come up with enough $ to cover it's current obligation of $100K. How is increasing to $250K going to change that? :confused:

This is going to get ugly as stupid plans cross the floor and idiots come up with idiotic plans.

When the gvm't decreased the prime rate, it increased property values. This merely encouraged borrowing. Don't let anyone fool you.....this was all intentionally done to increase spending to hold up industry production on the backs of the consumer going farther in debt. This is NOT productive. This is a gvm't encouraged disease. The gvm't is not going to cure this by encouraging MORE debt.....that is the problem....not the cure.....That's like giving more people cancer to cure cancer......HELLO!!! is anyone home?

[Gracy]

only problem is 85 billion divided by 200 million is $425.00

I'll take it!

hahaha!!!

[CajunCamper]

This was in our local Business Magazine today.

Louisiana Banks not seeing the impact of financial crisis

The nation

[wavery]

This was in our local Business Magazine today.

Louisiana Banks not seeing the impact of financial crisis

The nation

[oreo57]

Wayne, Cut the chit-chat and really tell us what you think.

[waygard33]

Here's an interesting little movie on the whole subject. Check out the video below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxgSubmiGt8

[Old Goat]

Wayne, Cut the chit-chat and really tell us what you think.

Please don't pick on Wayne..[bless his pea pick'n heart] He is only trying to become PUT's top Expert Armchair Economist by solving all the country's financial problems.. His own form of mathamatical hocus-pocus used in explaining his version of the problems is unequaled by any other that I have ever seen....

This is a great thread and I am really enjoying it along with it's good points and some not so good......Good job guys..

[chasd60]

Solution from daveramsey.com

[CajunCamper]

People and businesses that are in good financial condition will not have a problem borrowing. The problem is most businesses are not solvent and need loans to meet payroll or buy inventory.

The bigger problem is this, If Joe American stops refinancing their homes, personal income will drop significantly. That means that discretionary spending will fall and businesses will suffer. I'm sorry but that's the way that the system is supposed to work. If personal income is up due to productivity, businesses profit. If personal income is down due to lack of productivity businesses do not profit. That's what a free market is based on.

wavery,

You are on target my friend. But it doesn't have to be this way. Yes we have had growth over the years, but now the reality that is slapping us in the face is that it has not been healthy growth. Not to pat myself on the back, but I, as well as many people have exercised caution and personal responsibility over the years and didn't borrow up to our maximum of what the mortgage companies were willing to lend us. I own a nice 2400 sq foot home that meets our needs and the house was 18 years old when I bought it 7 years ago. When we were approved for the loan the mortgage company told us that we had actually been approved for $350,000 more than what we had asked for and that we could look at a much nicer home if we wanted to. My wife and I looked at them as if they were out of their minds and said thanks but no thanks. We were also given an option of a fixed rate loan or a variable loan with a baloon note. Once again the choice was clear. I don't buy new cars off the showroom floor because it has been proven time and time again over the years that buying a brand new car from a dealer is one of the worst financial decisions that can be made.

I own my own business. I worked for someone else for years before I started my own business. Before I opened my business, I spent about 3 years doing market research, explored different technologies and methods of producing the product I wanted to produce. I interviewed successful business owners, I interviewed people that owned businesses that failed. I met with people that were succesful in the same industry that I wanted to enter, (mind you, I had to go out of state to get meetings with many of these folks so they didn't feel threatened by me, and I also met with folks that ran some of the most successful business in my industry. These were companies that have revenues in the millions, one even in the billions, so I wasn't a threat to them.) During this time I was building a business model and writting my business plan. I had a small circle of successful business leaders in my community that were my friends and that I trusted that I met with and shared my plan with and allowed them to pick it apart and help me create a successful plan. Of that group of business leaders I had two successful business owners, the Vice-President of a Fortune 500 company, an attorney, a banker, a CPA, a business consultant and even a former Governor with his MBA from Harvard. I'm not the son a rich man, I never had access to people like this before, I didn't have anyone to set up these meetings, some of these people were strangers before I approached them. I simply spent time reading my local and state business magazines and found out who the people were on the who's who's list of business leaders, learned a little about them, cantacted people that worked for these people and then I went on a mission to contact my list of who's who's and set up a meeting with them.

I was honest with them up front in telling them why I wanted to meet them and I got a meeting with everyone on my who's who's list. Once I met with them, I sort of sized these people up and those that I was interrested in the most, I continued to call them and meet with them. Most of them gave me their cell phone numbers and answered or returned every call I made to them.

They were thrilled that I was asking for their advise, they put me in touch with other people that they thought I needed to meet and talk to. For more than two years I wrote and rewrote, and changed and tweaked and massaged my business plan until I got it to a point where my mentors and felt that it was time to launch the business. The business plan I launched, looked nothing like the plan I started.

I launched my business in March of 2005 and have never looked back.
I spent less money getting my business started than it did all of my competitors. I produce a superior product in comparison to my competition yet because of the time I spent in research and planning, I spend less money than my competition does producing my product while having a greater production capacity and while turning around an order faster than my competition. That also allows me to pass a savings on to my clients and now I sell wholesale to many of those I once considered to be my competition. In essence, I have turned most of my competitors into my allies utilizing their sales force as mine without increasing my cost one penny. By the way did I mention that I pay my people more than what my competition pays their people. I have not layed off one person or had one person quit in the three years I've been in business. I never have to run a want add in the paper because they come to me by referal.

Point is, we need to change the way we handle our personal finances and those of us in business have to really do our homework before launching a business and be willing to be an innovator in our chosen fields. I frustrate the hell out of my competition because they can't figure out how I do what I do, but when they figure out what I'm doing today, I will have evolved by then and then they will have to try and figure that out. In just three years, I have captured about 50% of the local business in the segment of the industry I have focused on.

And guess what, I don't generate near the revenue that some of my competitors do, but with the way my business is structured, they have to bring in 10 times the revenue that I do, to make the same profit that I make.

There needs to be a business revolution in this country and businesses need to change the way they think and do business, they need to brake the strongholds of the old business models and move into a new generation of business models. That's what I did and it has been a huge success.

Oh and by the way, I started my business 3 years ago with $25,000 that I saved up, didn't borrow a penny from the bank, and still haven't borrowed from the bank or anyone else, didn't use credit cards or anything. I also made my $25,000 investment back in less than 3 months after starting my business.

I have friends that own their own businesses and we talk quite a bit about business and everytime we meet they talk about cash flow problems, or revenue being down and their overhead being high, having to lay off employees. I have even shown some of these friends how to increase cash flow and reduce overhead by tens of thousands of dollars a year as well as how to increase their market share and because it requires thinking out of the box and moving away from the business model that they and all of their competitiors have held on to for years, they are affraid to try and so they will continue to struggle and complain.

Some of these same friends that I have given advise to, get annoyed with me when they call me on my cell phone during the week to find that I am kayaking a particular river, or fishing down on the coast, or conducting business from another city. They ask why are you conducting business in New York and I tell them, because I want to. Then they usually say with a slight attitude, "must be nice" and I reply, "yes it is, but don't you remember, that I showed you how you can transform your business so you can do the same thing?" To that they say yeah yeah yeah. Maybe one day they'll get it.

Well enough already, the way we approach business needs to change, the way we think about what business should look like needs to change and until it does business as usual will take place and problems as usual will continue to arrise.

CajunCamper

[garym053]

I believe it was in the early to mid 1990's that Congress passed and Clinton signed a bill directing banks to make riskier loans so that more Americans could enjoy the benefits of home ownership! One retired mortgage lender told me that under some circumstances they couldn't even ask for paycheck stubs to verify employment or income!!

THEN we have NAFTA sending many jobs over seas, (Hilary saying that was her husbands biggest accomplishment??) it's no wonder we're in the shape we're in!!!

We, as responsible Americans, have to make our displeasure with the politicians felt, and HURT! Vote out everyone who has voted for pork, or has voted "strictly" with their party, whether Republican or Democrat. IF they are voting party lines, they are NOT working for the good of America, they are working for the good of the party!

In Vermont our TV station was bragging the other day how our National Guard requested 12 of these new kind of trucks, and our Congressman got them 20!!! WHY?? They requested 12 GIVE them 12! Whose money do they think they are spending?

Look at all the pork that was attached to this "bailout" bill! I think it bails out the politician's more than anyone else!

[wavery]

I'm tired....