Starting fresh with a tow vehicle

[jim Kneiszel]

I'm going to buy a used tow vehicle to pull my '99 Coleman Sea Pine pop-up, and I'm looking for suggestions. A car dealer friend can find about anything for me, hopefully an SUV from the early 2000s and with 80,000 to 100,000 miles to keep the price down.

I currently tow with a Volvo 960 wagon (6-cylinder, rear-wheel drive), but  I know it's not the best choice. Tongue weight is an issue and it's just not stout enough to make me comfortable. Since I've never driven an SUV, and never towed the camper with anything but the Volvo, I don't know what to expect. Will I be able to see over the top of the Sea Pine driving and SUV? Will I need extra side view mirrors? I would really like to see the rear view better than I do now.

Ultimately, I'd like to feel confident driving on a 1,000-mile trip with decent power, adequate gas mileage, good comfort and better sight lines. The only SUV my car friend says to avoid is a Ford Explorer (he says some have transmission problems). Is that really an issue? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[robeyster]

I tow my 1997 Coachmen Clipper with my 1997 Ford Explorer. The Explorer's transmission is it's weakest link but I towed in the mountains and long trips and never had a problem to date. I always tow with overdrive off so that the engine is doing all the work and not the transmission. I have been towing for two years now and the only thing I would suggest is to try and get the sohv V6 or V8 instead of the ohv V6 engine they have more power and I find myself wanting not needing more power in the mountains.

[perterra]

I used to tow with an 02 Nissan Xterra 4WD, it was a great tow vehicle other than the 02 was a little short of horsepower. It never felt unsafe, just noisy as the engine would really rev up with the 4:30 gears on the interstate and the gas mileage really tanked when towin. 16 normal, 12 towing.  I could see over the trailer easily, could have been a little wider but I could see pretty good. I now tow with a Suzuki Grand Vitara V6 4WD. Got a 3000# rating and it pulls our 2000# trailer like its not even there. Sets lower to the ground and a little narrower but my mileage towing is generally 16 to 17 and empty is normally 20 to 22mpg.

Before these two I had numerous pickups both full size and compact, 2WD and 4WD; and how they hauled was really more a reflection of size and how they were set up with engine and gearing.

I think its safe to say if you made it with the Volvo, just about any SUV with a decent towing capacity will impress you.

[NLESCAPE]

Im not sure on the weight of your camper but i tow a Jayco Eagle 10UD which has a 1600 lbs dry weight with a 06 Ford Escape and it does the job well. I figure when i leave for a weekend outing im in around the 2000 to 2300 lbs range, maybe even 2500lbs somtimes, i just dont force it too hard on hills and stop and go stuff being that its a small SUV.

[wavery]

I'm going to buy a used tow vehicle to pull my '99 Coleman Sea Pine pop-up, and I'm looking for suggestions. A car dealer friend can find about anything for me, hopefully an SUV from the early 2000s and with 80,000 to 100,000 miles to keep the price down.

I currently tow with a Volvo 960 wagon (6-cylinder, rear-wheel drive), but  I know it's not the best choice. Tongue weight is an issue and it's just not stout enough to make me comfortable. Since I've never driven an SUV, and never towed the camper with anything but the Volvo, I don't know what to expect. Will I be able to see over the top of the Sea Pine driving and SUV? Will I need extra side view mirrors? I would really like to see the rear view better than I do now.

Ultimately, I'd like to feel confident driving on a 1,000-mile trip with decent power, adequate gas mileage, good comfort and better sight lines. The only SUV my car friend says to avoid is a Ford Explorer (he says some have transmission problems). Is that really an issue? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Hi Jim,

It is important to find out what your PU weighs along with the weight of all of your cargo, fuel and passengers. Then you need to find a TV with GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) that will carry the entire package. The tow rating really tells you very little unless you have a 2500# PU, you have a driver and 3 passengers that weigh about 500#, you carry about 500# of cargo and fuel and buy a TV with a tow rating of 3500+ pounds. Tow rating often consider the TV being empty and often don't even allow for a driver and fuel.

It's better to give yourself a little cush too. A 4000# tow vehicle with a GCWR of 7500# would barely be able to handle the scenario above. It's best to have a 10-20% cushion for safety.

Side view mirrors are a good idea and come in slide over, strap-on, clip-on and permanent. Most SUVs will sit high enough to allow you to see over the roof unless you have A/C.

Once you find a vehicle that you like, contact your friend and have him get the GCWR for you. It will help you in your decision.

[jim Kneiszel]

This is real helpful. The Sea Pine weighs in the neighborhood of 1,600 pounds. Four family members about 550 (and growing), two dogs 72 pounds, stuff we carry ... hmmm. Hard to say what a week's worth of provisions weigh. Let's say it's 2,800 pounds total.

I'm thinking a 6-cylinder mid-size SUV with a truck frame. Early contenders are Toyota 4runner and Chevy Trailblazer. The Volvo's two rating is 3,300 pounds, but it's as much the suspension as the powerplant that I worry about with that car. It's closing in on 200,000 miles and I'm still going to drive it most of the time.

My friend suggests it's better to get one without a tow package already, saying that then he knows it's not been abused by too much hauling in its past life. This seems counter to advice I've read here, that says a factory tow package is better. By the way, if I don't get one set up for towing, how much can I expect to spend for hitch, transmission cooler, etc.? And if I get a vehicle that can easily tow the pop-up, do I need the tranny cooler?

[wavery]

This is real helpful. The Sea Pine weighs in the neighborhood of 1,600 pounds. Four family members about 550 (and growing), two dogs 72 pounds, stuff we carry ... hmmm. Hard to say what a week's worth of provisions weigh. Let's say it's 2,800 pounds total.

I'm thinking a 6-cylinder mid-size SUV with a truck frame. Early contenders are Toyota 4runner and Chevy Trailblazer. The Volvo's two rating is 3,300 pounds, but it's as much the suspension as the powerplant that I worry about with that car. It's closing in on 200,000 miles and I'm still going to drive it most of the time.

My friend suggests it's better to get one without a tow package already, saying that then he knows it's not been abused by too much hauling in its past life. This seems counter to advice I've read here, that says a factory tow package is better. By the way, if I don't get one set up for towing, how much can I expect to spend for hitch, transmission cooler, etc.? And if I get a vehicle that can easily tow the pop-up, do I need the tranny cooler?

Your friend may have a valid point. However, a vehicle with a tow package is often built with a heavier tranny, HD radiator, HD trans cooler, HD springs, suspension and brakes (depending on the manufacturer). With your PU, I'd say that you are pretty safe to get one without a tow package seeing as you are going for a higher mileage vehicle that may have towed itself to death.

Just be sure that the vehicle has a GCWR that is capable of handling your growing family and all of your gear. that's a big responsibility.

From what you have posted a 3500# tow capacity may be OK but leaves very little wiggle room fro expansion. Chances are, you will be upgrading your camper before you are ready for another TV. I'd be looking for something with a tow capacity of 5-6,000#.

Add a BIG trans cooler (maybe $200), a tailer hitch and wiring (maybe $400) and a brake controller (about $100) and you should be ready to go.

[austinado16]

If you're starting fresh, consider a Yukon or Suburban.  They're dirt cheap, so quiet and comfortable it's like traveling in your living room, and they're built for towing and hauling.  Unless you don't think you'll ever use it, get 4 wheel drive.

They come with big power mirrors, so you can see what you're towing.  Huge brakes and typically ABS, so you can haul without having to have trailer brakes.  They're super strong and safe. They don't roll when crashed, and if they do ever land on their roofs, the roofs don't collapse.  With the 5.7L(350 small block)V-8, you can get about 17-18mpg in overdrive on the highway, empty, at the speedlimit, and 15mpg towing something like a PUP.

[Duckv]

I'll second the Suburban suggestion.  I'm on my second one (wish I had traded my volvo and kept the first suburban instead, but 2 burbs in one family may be a bit much).  The 99 I just got rid of was built like a tank and got the same average gas mileage as my buddy's 6 cylinder blazers, explorers, etc., and it drove great, even with 125,000 miles--some would say it was just getting broken in.

[austinado16]

My '90 has 254,000 on it now.  Original engine that's never been apart.  Finally had to rebuild the original 700R4 trans at 240k, and an axle bearing went out in the rear end last year, so I just had the entire rearend rebuilt.  We only use it for towing and hauling, and ski trips where we and another family will go up together.

[joandthe3boys]

Wavery,

You mentioned BIG trans cooled...
[Add a BIG trans cooler (maybe $200), a tailer hitch and wiring (maybe $400) and a brake controller (about $100) and you should be ready to go.]

I have a 2006 GMC Sierra 1500 quad cab 4x4 as a TV, and a 2006 Evolution 2 that we acquired at the end of last year.    My question is this,   I tow form the No Cal Bay Area over to the Eastern slope of the Sierras. (Love them Aspen trees)
My old TV 91 GMC Burb hated to tow anything over the pass.  :swear:
In your opinion...  Should I add an after market Trans cooler?   Do you have any recommendations?
I have looked to see if there was one already on this TV but unless they have hidden it somewhere else it does not have one. No additional cooler or lines going to the radiator location.
  :eyecrazy:
I have been following you recommendations for the past 9 months, so far so good..  :#
Would love to hear your thoughts on this one.

Thanks for the guidance,
Greg

[wavery]

Wavery,

You mentioned BIG trans cooled...
[Add a BIG trans cooler (maybe $200), a tailer hitch and wiring (maybe $400) and a brake controller (about $100) and you should be ready to go.]

I have a 2006 GMC Sierra 1500 quad cab 4x4 as a TV, and a 2006 Evolution 2 that we acquired at the end of last year.    My question is this,   I tow form the No Cal Bay Area over to the Eastern slope of the Sierras. (Love them Aspen trees)
My old TV 91 GMC Burb hated to tow anything over the pass.  :swear:
In your opinion...  Should I add an after market Trans cooler?   Do you have any recommendations?
I have looked to see if there was one already on this TV but unless they have hidden it somewhere else it does not have one. No additional cooler or lines going to the radiator location.
  :eyecrazy:
I have been following you recommendations for the past 9 months, so far so good..  :#
Would love to hear your thoughts on this one.

Thanks for the guidance,
Greg

All GM trucks have a trans cooler built into the radiator. The problem is this, as you start climbing, the engine works harder which puts more demand on the radiator to cool the engine and this leaves less capacity for the built-in trans cooler to effectively cool the transmission fluid.

When you add an external trans cooler (along with the internal one), the external trans cooler assists the cooling of the trans fluid and relieves some of the burden on the built-in cooler. The cooler trans fluid running through that radiator not only helps the trans run cooler but it also helps the engine run cooler by removing the extra burden of the super-heater trans fluid inside the radiator..

It is best to place the external trans cooler behind the radiator as apposed to in front of the radiator (as a lot of installations are done). If you place the trans cooler in front of the radiator, you can restrict the amount of air passing through the radiator and reduce the effectiveness of the entire system.

Super heated trans fluid can be far hotter than radiator coolant. By placing the super-heated trans cooler in front of the radiator, you are also increasing the temperature of the air passing through the radiator, thus reducing the effectiveness of the radiator.

Placing the trans cooler behind the radiator allows it to be the last item in the chain (radiator, AC condenser, trans cooler) and increases the effectiveness of the entire system.

You want to avoid (if possible) "Add-ons" to be a burden to the factory design if it can be helped. Placing the trans-cooler in front of the radiator is better than not having one because, in the end, the idea is to increase the amount of area to allow air passing through to remove heat. No matter where you place it, you will achieve that goal. It's just BEST to place it at the end of the chain.

On some vehicles, there may be room to place a trans cooler in an area that allows it to have it's own fan. This is the ultimate set-up because it will rely on air that has not been previously heated by the radiator to pass through and the exiting heated air to be exhausted without effecting the air entering the radiator.

Here are a few that I found that might be good for your Suburban:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-TRU-COOL-TRANSMISSION-COOLER-28-000-GVW-TOW-TOWING_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem170311967491QQitemZ170311967491QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Here's a great one, if you can find a plce to put it, out of the raiator air flow:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/B-M-70298-Hi-Tek-Engine-Oil-Transmission-Cooler-System_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem270286245869QQitemZ270286245869QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

This is a good one:
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductBrowse?storeId=10101&Pr=p_Product.CATENTRY_ID%3A2000992&productId=2000992&catalogId=10101&N=111%2B10201%2B600003643&rlid=group_listing

[austinado16]

So you don't have a pair of small diameter lines going to one of your radiator tanks?  Pictures of the radiator at online parts sources show the fittings in the radiator tanks.  

FWIW, I prepped our '90 Suburban for towing by installing a huge external trans cooler, and the big B&M cast aluminum finned tran pan that holds an extra 3 or 4qts.  It's also bunged for a transmission oil temp gauge, so I installed a mechanical gauge and mounted it in the dash.  Haven't switched to synthetic Dexron VI yet, but that's the next thing on the list.  I also installed a big cast aluminum finned rear differential cover that holds maybe 1/2qt more gear oil, and am using synthetic gear oil.

Edit:  After reading wavery's post, a couple more thoughts:
That B&M cooler would be outstanding because it's got it's own temp sensing fan.  I used the first cooler that wavery lists the link too, and have that mounted in front of the radiator with no fan on it.

I've got a theory on mounting in front of the radiator vs. behind.
1) Manufactures mount in front of their radiators...weather it's a/c condensors, engine oil coolers, or trans oil coolers.  The design the radiators to be large enough to transfer the heat generated.  This allows the use of smaller external coolers for engine oil, trans oil, and a/c condensor.  My 'burb (as did your '91) came with a big engine oil cooler in front of the condensor, which is in front of the radiator.
2) You want the external cooler to be the last thing in line before the oil it's cooling returns to the engine or transmission.  So you want it out front, in the coolest possible air.  You don't want it behind the radiator getting soaked in 200*F air flow....you want it out front in air that's going to be 115*F or lower(depending on where you're driving)
3) You want the trans oil to flow through the heat exchanger in the radiator tank before it gets to the oil cooler out front.  If you're using a low pressure drop cooler (like that first one wavery posted) it will restrict flow through the cooler to keep the oil closer to operating temp in cold starting or cold weather.

B&M trans pan:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplayPopup?storeId=10001&partNumber=130-70260&langId=-1&showValue=1

Just my 2 cents worth.

[joandthe3boys]

Thanks for the quick reply...
But.....
I sold the Suburban as I didn't think I need both the Burb and Truck both.  I don't think I made the best choice at times. I miss the power the Burb had (It was a 2500 with a 454) It would pass everything on the road except a gas station, with a 42 gallon tank and gas at the time around $3.50 to $4.00 per.  

With you recommendations I looked at the on-line guide for my truck and it does have an integrated trans cooler.    Do you recommend installing an additional cooler?
Sorry for all of the questions, but I trust your opinions more than a sales geek at 4x4 warehouse or a transmission shop.

Thanks again for the guidance,


Greg

[austinado16]

Yeah, I knew you were shopping for your pickup, I just mentioned what I'd done for my 'burb, so you could consider that for your truck.

I don't know anything about 2006 automatics, so I don't know if they're prone to the kind of high failure rate as the 700R4(4L60) was in my 'burb......mostly those were failures due to towning in 4th, and high heat.  You may have the 4L80E or 4L60E, but I don't know.

All that being said, I would certainly put a big cooler on, and upgrade to trans temp gauge, whether or not you upgrade to the big oil pan.  It's high internal heat that will smoke an automatic in no time flat.....and you're towing up in some of the steepest passes and highest altitudes anywhere in the country.  It's those long pulls at lower speeds (less air flow through the radiator) that runs the temps through the roof.