Pop Up Sales down down down

[JimQPublic]

I think that even though gas was expensive this summer, if the buyer already has a truck/SUV capable of towing a Travel Trailer they wouldn't be tempted by a similarly priced popup.

In a few years of high fuel prices it's likely that many buyers' next vehicle will be smaller.  Then they're likely to look at popups.  That's only if you can find a full-featured, good quality popup under 3000 gross.  (To be towed by the typical minivan/highlander size vehicle)

Price still has to enter the equation though.  Not that many people are willing to pay $15,000 for a tent.  For many of us (even though I have no tenting), part of the appeal is the Tent+comforts.  For those on the Dark Side, a folding trailer is only something to get if you can't afford a big ugly box... OOPS- I mean a nice travel trailer or motorhome.

[TheViking]

I'm your typical RV camper, I, like many others started with a tent, then to a pop-up, skipped over the Hybrid and went straight for the TT. There are still alot of things I miss about my pop-up. Obviously the ease of towing is first. I miss the openess of it when it is all un-zipped. I miss the that it took up less room on the RV side of the house, plus here in SoCal, you can get permanent plates for a pop-up. Or, as the DMV girl told me "Your camper is eligible for Permanent Plates", I said: cool !!! She said: You only have to renew them every 5 years....:confused: . I said: Kinda takes the excitement of them being "Permanent" out of it doesn't it? Then I remembered where I was...California.
 
Botttom line is, I think pop-up's will always have a market.  It's a starting point for young RVer's

[zamboni]

plus here in SoCal, you can get permanent plates for a pop-up.

This got me wondering... what the definition was for PTI; I remember enjoying the rate on my PUP, and now have to pay $170/year for my Hybrid...

So, went to the DMV site.

PTI is for "all trailers, except trailer coaches and park trailers".

OK -- what is a "trailer coach"?

A "trailer coach" is a vehicle, other than a motor vehicle, designed for human habitation or human occupancy for industrial, professional, or commercial purposes, for carrying property on its own structure, and for being drawn by a motor vehicle. (CA Vehicle Code Section 635)

In theory this would mean that our regular campers are NOT "trailer coaches", because I know my Hybrid was not suitably designed for professional or commercial purposes (I can't use it full time, per warranty).

Would that mean that a recreational trailer should qualify for PTI?

[jawilson]

I think there might be one other factor, and that's tow vehicles.  There are precious few family vehicles capable of towing even a medium-sized pop-up.  

This decline in towing capacity has been going on for decades.

Actually, the opposite is true; towing capacities have been going up for decades. There are 1/2 ton pickup trucks today that can haul and tow weights that are not too far removed from what a 1 ton was capable of about a dozen years ago. Mid-sized SUV's, for the most part, continue to increase their towing capacities too. It's not uncommon for those to be able to tow 6500+ pounds. Even mini vans are getting better. Less then 10 years ago it was uncommon to find one that could tow 2000 pounds, and now it's uncommon to find one that CAN'T tow 2000 pounds. A lot of them are 3000 or more pounds. Some of the "crossover" vehicles that try to claim they're SUV's, like Honda's CRV, don't have much capacity, but even those can probably tow most smaller PU's. My guess would be that towing capacity isn't really much of an issue.

[JimQPublic]

Jawilson and Austin Boston are both right.  Jawilson because most "cars" aren't rated to tow even an 8' popup at its GVWR.  Austin because most SUV's are rated to tow TT's.  Minivans and the like are rated to tow many, but not the biggest popups.

So if you have a "car", you tend to look at Motorhomes since you can't tow even a small popup, or else you buy a big truck and big trailer.  If you have an SUV, you tend to look at TT's and Hybrids because they're not much more $ than popups.

Jim
2002 Chalet Arrowhead
2004 Subaru Forester XT

[mike4947]

Towing capacity IS a big issue. Way back when 12 foot PU's rarely weighed over 1700 pounds and even the largest fully equipped ones raely went over 2400 pounds.

As an example I towed a 12 foot Rockwood 1206 and later a Jayco 12 footer with a 1977 Nova with a class I bumper hitch and neither grossed over 2000 pounds.
Today the same size trailer equipped as they were run from a low of 2500 pounds "dry" to a GWR of 3770 pounds.
 
With both trailers I had an actual 400+ pounds of CCC. Currently the last 4 12 foot PU's I weighed had less than 300 pounds off CCC off the showroom floor.
 
Also don't forget those 3500 pound tow ratings, include the loading in the TV, and any optional equipment on the van, as well as passengers.

[meriflower1985]

Speaking about the decline of popups, the editors at Pop Up Times want to "expand" their coverage to HTT/Lightweight TT/toy haulers, popups not being their primary focus anymore.  What is your opinion on that?

Nancy

[GeneF]

Speaking about the decline of popups, the editors at Pop Up Times want to "expand" their coverage to HTT/Lightweight TT/toy haulers, popups not being their primary focus anymore.  What is your opinion on that?

Nancy

I think it might be a good idea.  I have to commend Dave on his efforts over the past few years to give us a magazine that is dedicated to popups but I don't think it would hurt to expand the magazine.

I would prefer that it stayed with the smaller stuff and left the 5ver's and motorized rigs out.

My main reason for this is that it would give readers a more broad outlook on what is out there in smaller stuff and a hybrid or small tt might be the next logical step.

Although I own a hybrid, (after 4 popups) I have not seen very much material published about them and would like to see PopUpTimes include them in the magazine.

[TheViking]

In theory[/b] this would mean that our regular campers are NOT "trailer coaches", because I know my Hybrid was not suitably designed for professional or commercial purposes (I can't use it full time, per warranty).
 
Would that mean that a recreational trailer should qualify for PTI?

I agree with you.  Let's try to explain that to the geniuses at DMV.....

[chkster]

having never thought of a Popup as an RV...
we kind of put the trailer b4 the TV. bought out coachmen...near 2500 lbs fully loaded (options and gear) owning a Chevy S-10 4.3 V-6 rated at 4500lbs towing capacity. Got lucky!
We have since bought a GMC Sierra with god knows how much capacity... and the DW is  talking Hybrid... arrrrgh!
Had we the TV we now have and with info I gained form these forums I might have gone to a Hybrid ( money wise).. but now owning a Popup the only thing I would move to is a slide/push/pull/out.. on a popup. In laws have a 21 ft 5th wheeler and it is just as narrow. Our dealer has two different lots one for the popups and one for the trailers etc.. The sale lady knew nothing about popups ... in hind sight... she did not even know our popup had brakes for one thing. Another thread talked about knowledgable salespersons.. if they  knew about popups they might refer someone to that line  as a start up. And keep unsuspecting folks from buying over their TV wekghts!
And Mine fits in my garage!!!

[copcarguy]

Hey all!

My first new PU was a 2001 Coleman Taos which I pulled behind my 2001 Ford Crown Vic.  We outgrew that and moved up to a new 2003 Coleman Carmel, which I towed with an '03 Ranger and then an '03 E-250 van.  We loved having hot water, potty, shower, fridge, etc. and began taking longer and longer trips.  When we'd get tired, we would take naps on an air matress in the back of the van at a rest area (or Wal-Mart).  One morning I woke up in the van freezing cold and looked back at all the creature comforts of home popped down a few feet behind us.  It was right then that I made up my mind to get a hybrid.  We can now safely rest "turtled" in a rest area, but still enjoy "real" camping sleeping under tenting.  What a great invention hybrids are!

[TroutBum]

Loved the word "amenities."  Just read an article where campers are demanding more and more amenities at cg's.  Thus, the big rise in wireless internet and cable tv available at sites.  
.

Ok, I know I am new to the RV scene but wireless internet while camping!?!?  
I thought I was pushing it when I bring along a satellite radio to listen to baseball games.  My Great-uncle owned a houseboat so I knew about cable... but he was living 1/2 the year in it.  I use my P-UP as a weekend fishing lodge.  I would never think of taking a tv or computer on a weekend getaway.

[Gone-Camping]

I love to go camping, even in rustic campgrounds...but my racing website doesn't sit still on the weekends, I take the laptop with me, if I can get free WiFi while camping great! If not, I connect via cell phone....Everyone has different views and different needs when camping!!