RE: 2nd Dead Battery.....Help

[cowboy]

 
To all those who understand converters in Popup.
 
  I am at a loss; in mid December I purchased a Group 27 190 AH Deep Cell battery at West Marine. I connected the popup to shore power and left it connected for about two weeks before leaving for our first outing.
 
 The return between trips for the next 2 months averaged about 4-5 days, (we were on the road at festivals around Florida ). Weekly the battery read 12.86 volts after a cool down period and seemed to retain a good charge. Water level was maintained and everything appeared to be normal.
 
 I went out to the Camper 2 weeks ago and NO 12 volt power, the battery read 0.475 Volts. The shore power was connected until the day before and all systems were working. Instant return to West Marine, after checking, the sales Rep s determination was a dead cell. They were kind enough to tell me to grab a new one off the shelf. I left thinking that West Marine stood behind their product and had treated me right; I still believe they did the right thing.
 
 Tonight, during the installation of our new Add A Room (at last), I flipped the overhead light and guess what, NO 12 Volt power. The battery reads 0.386 Volts, and I need to know if I am killing the battery. Does leaving the battery connected to the converter/charger cause this type of problem or is there a possibility that West Marine has received a bad batch of product.
 
  The first Battery lasted 2 12 months the last 2 weeks, any help would be appreciated.
 

[MtnCamper]

 cowboy
How long since you had this on the charger?
 
 Your Propane detector may be running it all the way to " DEAD" . Either unhook it, or put a switch on it, so you can turn everything off, when parked for a period of days. If there is a quick disconnect from the battery to the camper, unhook there. If not take the lid off and unhook the battery. If you want, you can drill a hole in the battery box, and add a toggle. Then just flip the toggle and it s all unhooked.
 
 Also, make sure your are not pulling the lanyard out of the brake, This will drain that in a few hours.

[cowboy]

 cowboy
Ok, Try one more time.
 
 I am still trying to figure out the proper way to post to the board.
 
 Mtncamper, the battery was connected to shore power up until the day before the loss of 12 Volt power, no battery disconnect switch, still trying to figure out the best way to set this up.
 
 I have been in the process of determining the best 3 stage charger to install along with an on, both, off, battery switch.
 
 The remaining question,  will leaving the popup connected to shore power for extended periods of time kill the battery.
 
 Has anyone else experienced this type of problem?

[MtnCamper]

 cowboy
OK, Here s the tough question. The wires connected to your battery are color coded, Which one is hooked up to the positive terminal of the battery?

[cowboy]

 cowboy
Mtncamper,
 
 Just like the factory ordered, red to positive and white to ground, the red has the fuse as expected.
 
 Any suggestions.

[mike4947]

 cowboy
Answer is yes it will harm a battery. The converter has no " automatic curcuitry"  to tell it to stop charging when the battery can t be charged anymore.
 Most likely you ve had to add water at some point and/or you ve sulfated it to the point it can t be recovered.
 Converter are made to " OPERATE"  12 volt appliances and lights not to " CHARGE"  batteries. No matter what the Manufacturers say the converter doesn t put out enough voltage to fully charge (or desulfate) the battery.
 Any of the " deep cycle"  automatic 3 stage battery chargers will do fine in keeping you battery in tip top shape. You can find them for around 50 dollars even at Wally World.
 
 Charge it before you leave.
 Charge it when you get home.
 Charge it at least once a month during extended storage.
 Disconnect it from the trailer when not camping.
 Check the water before and after charging.
 Don t discharge it to the point the lights are dim.
 
 I burnt up litterally more batteries than most discount houses stock over the years till I learned the hard way. My current one is going on 6 years old following the above rules.
 

[MtnCamper]

 cowboy
I thought maybe you had it hooked up backwards, (this has happened many times on here). That would explain the quick discharge. But the fused wire goes to positive. So that doesn t sound like the case.
 
 I would do as Mike suggests (I do). That is, charge when you get home, disconnect, charge again before you leave. My batteries are 3 years old and are in good shape. So I know it works.
 
 The best thing I did was to add the switch to the battery cover. If you want to see a picture of it I ll try to upload one.

[cowboy]

 cowboy
mike4947,
 
 Thank you for the info, I heed your words of advice.
 I will purchase a new 3 stage charger tomorrow.  
 
 Should I attempt to return the battery to West Marine or just make a new purchase? I wouldn t want to take advantage of a problem I created myself to obtain a new battery.
 
 Is it possible to kill a 2 week old battery by leaving it hooked to the converter/charger. The fluid levels are ok and have been maintained during the period in question.
 
 Any advice on a battery disconnect switch and dedicated charger.
 
 
 Thank you for taking the time to help out.

[cowboy]

 cowboy
Mtncamper,
 
 Iwould like very much to see a photo of the disconnect switch on the battery box.
 If it s not to much trouble, it sure would come in handy.
 
 What kind of heavy duty switch is used to make the connection, and have you figured out a way to make it waterproof or is this even necessary.
 
 Still trying to make heads or tails of the 12V on the trailer.
 
 
 
 Thanks

[MtnCamper]

 cowboy
Mike, If this battery is 2 weeks old, I doubt it was the converter. People spend that much time in a campground hooked up 24/7.
 
 I still think something else is up. But I don t know what. In order to drain the battery that low, that quick, If it s not hooked backward, where is the drain? Electric brakes? Lanyard isn t pulled....

[MtnCamper]

 cowboy
Cowboy, Click on the attachment.jpg, by my signature line about 3 posts up. I already posted it.
 These switches are 30 amp. weatherproof, from the auto parts store. Couple bucks each.

[cowboy]

 cowboy
Mtncamper,
 
 Nice set up, how many batteries are you set up to run, in the photo it appears at least two.
 
 I think that this would be a good as it would be a lot eaiser to remain hooked up in the driveway. We do a lot of quick trips and are only home for 4-5 days at a time during October thru March. The DW is a vendor at Midieval Faires, so we keep on the go during this time of year.
 
 To the question at hand, no electric brakes and the converter/charger was hooked up on both batteries until we were ready to depart.  No drain time for the propane sensor to discharge to this level. Besides, even if the battery was being discharged, wouldn t it only drop to 12.1 or so within a day or two. I wouldn t drop to less than 1V without being internaly damaged would it?
 
 
 Thanks once again.

[MtnCamper]

 cowboy
Cowboy, Thats why I though initially you had it backward. In effect your converter would discharge and attempt to recharge back. If you had 2 bad batteries, the odds are pretty great. Buy me a lotto ticket!
 
 I run 2 group 27 batteries. We are always camping at altitude, it usually gets cold, or cool every night.  I don t like to run out of power.

[cowboy]

 cowboy
Mtncamper,
 
 I have a hard time believing that 2 batteries would just go bad. I am thinking that they may be from the same lot, the west Marine store I deal with is small and has a 2 x3  shelf of 190AH deep cycle batteries.
 
 Any reason you can think of, given the backround that I would be having this problem.
 
 I really want to be sure that it s not the converter before I take this battery back.
 I would feel pretty foolish if they claimed it had been mistreated or damaged thru poor charging.
 
 If I get a new one and it goes bad also, I will be happy to buy you a Florida lottery ticket to offset your tinme
 
 Thanks for staying up late to help out.

[tlhdoc]

 cowboy
Are you sure the converter is charging your batteries?  Maybe the converter is bad or you have a blown fuse.  It could be you got 2 bad batteries.  If your converter is working, I would go to West Marine and let them check the battery out.  If the battery is new being hooked up to shore power for 2 weeks shouldn t hurt it, unless there wasn t enough water in the cells.