RE: Brave New World- Sway, Weight Distributing Hitches and Air Lifts

dlind · Sep 28, 2003, 07:05 PM

Hi All,

This is my first post and I thank you upfront for any advice. My situation is that I just purchased a used Coleman Utah and as I was driving it home I experienced significant sway as I reached 62 MPH or so. A little scary[

] to say the least.

I used to own a 1984 Sun Valley which proabbly weighed half as much and never had any sway. My questions are: Do I need a weight distribution hitch or will a sway control system be sufficient? Can I add sway control first to see if it solves the problem and then address system level issues if I need it? I don t have a lot of money to spend on the hitches and it can get very expensive ($600 for an equalizer or $270 for a Draw-Tite trunnion WD hitch plus $170 for a dual cam sway control system). Does the WD system help with emergency stopping or control of sway in any way? Would airlifts to the tow vehicle itself be equal to a WD hitch system?

It also looks like hitching and un-hitching a weight distributiing hitch can be a real pain and if we are only planning to use it for one or two night weekend campouts a few times a year it could be real hassle.

Thank you for your wisdom.

Don L

YellowXterra · Apr 01, 2003, 08:49 PM

dlindI have a Reese Mini 350 its a WDH with sway control and is not a big Pain to hitch and unhitch. If you are interested I will send you a like to an on line store who have the best price on the net. I paid $225 for mine

MtnCamper · Apr 01, 2003, 08:52 PM

dlindA 350 would do well for you, It provides weight distribution, and sway control both. As far as air bags, sure they will lift up the back, but do nothing to improve tow ability.
Spend the money and get a mini 350. It s a much better ride.

mike4947 · Apr 01, 2003, 11:15 PM

dlindListen to these people they re giving you good advice.
The Reese WD350 is one of the few hitchs that can solve all your problems as it comes out of the box with both weight distribution and sway control. Reese even makes a model of the 350 with bars contured to go around the swing up jack.

Air lifts only cure rear end sag on a TV. same with helper spring, air shocks, rubber springs. They don t help sway or an overload condition on the rear TV axle.

AustinBoston · Apr 02, 2003, 08:10 AM

dlindI am one of the biggest proponents of Weight Distributing Hitches going, but there is one critical piece of information missing. What are you towing with? Without knowig this, it is impossible to know whether using a WDH is even safe, never mind effective.

In and of themeselves, weight distributing hitches do little or nothing to solve sway problems. The Reese Mini-350 uses a friction system to dampen sway, but it is the friction system, not the weight distribution that does the job. The same is true with dual-cam sway control. The dual cam controls sway, not the weight distribution.

The real problem may be how the trailer is loaded. Was the front trunk on the Utah empty? Without having at least 10% of the trailer s total weight on the tongue, you are setting yourself up for sway. The Utah tends to run significantly less than 10% tongue weight (about 6%, I think) when empty.

Post again, and answer some questions for us, so we can give some informed advice:

* What are you towing with?

* Was the Utah loaded, and was there anything in the front storage trunk?

* Does your tow vehicle sag when you hook up (more than an inch)?

Austin

PS - Almost forgot...welcome to the board.

dlind · Apr 02, 2003, 08:29 AM

dlindMore info on my setup.

* What are you towing with? Ford Aerostar 1994 Extended with towing packageplus 4.0 L engine.

* Was the Utah loaded, and was there anything in the front storage trunk? Empty and without battery. Easy way to measure tongue weight?

* Does your tow vehicle sag when you hook up (more than an inch)? It does not seem to go down more than an inch.

Thanks.

Don

wynot · Apr 02, 2003, 09:19 AM

dlind

QuoteMy situation is that I just purchased a used Coleman Utah and as I was driving it home I experienced significant sway as I reached 62 MPH or so. A little scary to say the least.

Welcome to the most sway prone camper that Coleman makes.

Couple words of advice.

Put every heavy thing you can find in that storage trunk, and do not store anything heavy behind the camper s wheels.
Run a friction sway bar or a WDH (Reese Mini350).
Don t drive over 60 if you can avoid it.
Run your tow vehicle s rear tires at max pressure.

TomToCamp · Apr 02, 2003, 09:19 AM

dlind2000 Specifications Utah Base Hitch Weight 139 lbs.
My 2000 Santa Fe has A BHW of 183 lbs.

I put on Air lift 2000s and they work great for me.
I have a bikerack/towbar and still don t get sag.
I did have to remove battery from tongue 54 lbs.
Wtih a full Propane, 2 bikes and rack i get a tongue weight of about 270 lbs.

Does anyone weight the stuff they carry?
Seems like sway could be fixed by where goodies are placed in camper.
When I do need to take battery with this setup I put it inside all the way back under the seat. = 54 lbs on the other side of the axle = less tongue weight.

With the WDH seems like you are putting alot of torque somewhere.
Tom

MtnCamper · Apr 02, 2003, 09:41 AM

TomToCamp

QuoteORIGINAL: TomToCamp

2000 Specifications Utah Base Hitch Weight 139 lbs.
My 2000 Santa Fe has A BHW of 183 lbs.

I put on Air lift 2000s and they work great for me.
I have a bikerack/towbar and still don t get sag.
I did have to remove battery from tongue 54 lbs.
Wtih a full Propane, 2 bikes and rack i get a tongue weight of about 270 lbs.

Tom, Why remove the battery, just leave it up front. You got one of the best towable trailers made. The hitch will handle the weight. I run 2 group27 and the propane on the hitch. All the time. Your bike rack doesn t add to the tongue weight. It adds to the load weight of the truck.

dlind · Apr 02, 2003, 09:51 AM

dlindTom,
What bike rack do you use? I am planning on using a removeable one on top of the Utah made by Acar. It holds four and I need to carry two more.

I noticed you have a Windstar. Do you use it to tow the Sante Fe? How do you fit all your stuff in it? [

] We have a 2001 Windsatr also but don t see how we could use it since we have four kids and lots of stuff to take camping with us. That is why we are holding on to the Aerostar.

Thanks.
Don

6Quigs · Apr 02, 2003, 11:46 AM

dlindWelcome to the board.
I see you have already got excellent advice on getting a Reese Mini 350 WHD with sway.
Our Safari recommends a WDH for trailers over 2,000 lbs, so your Aerostar may be similar.
We had a similar experience when we brought our Niagara home from the dealer, and again on our first trip, where we had not packed correctly, and it swayed a lot.
The Reese Mini 350 has really helped.
I have photos of the installation on my web page.

http://the6quigleys.tripod.com/camping/id6.html

As to how to weigh your Tongue, Bart,(everybodyhauls) a former PUT member had an excellent description with photos on his web page.

http://softsmart.com/popup/

AustinBoston · Apr 02, 2003, 12:12 PM

dlind

QuoteORIGINAL: dlind

More info on my setup.

* What are you towing with? Ford Aerostar 1994 Extended with towing packageplus 4.0 L engine.

A more than capable tow vehicle. Too bad they stopped making them. Sway may be made worse if the " extended" increases the distance from the axle to the hitch ball, but short of getting a new TV, there is nothing you can do about that.

Quote* Was the Utah loaded, and was there anything in the front storage trunk? Empty and without battery. Easy way to measure tongue weight?

See 6Quigs post for a link to one method to weigh the tongue. You will probably need a tongue weight over 300 lbs., and you might find that proper loading will clear up your sway problems. But keep reading...

Quote* Does your tow vehicle sag when you hook up (more than an inch)? It does not seem to go down more than an inch.

If you have no rear end sag, then you probably don t need a WDH (but check the fine print in your owner s manual). OTOH, if the Aerostar is Front Wheel Drive, then you amost certanly need a WDH, regardless of sag or sway. On the other-other hand, by the time you get the proper tongue weight, you may have more than an inch of sag.

Rear end sag is only a symptom, not the real problem. While suspension enhancements (air bags, helper springs, etc.) are popular for dealing with the sag, they don t fix the real problem, which is a combination of too much weight on the rear axle and not enough on the front axle. The more dangerous of the two is insufficient front axle weight. Suspension enhancements do absolutely nothing to correct this problem. WDH s move some of the tongue weight onto the front axle, and some onto the trailer axle, distributing the tongue weight between all three axles, which is how your (and everyone else s) tow vehicle is supposed to ride.

Austin

AustinBoston · Apr 02, 2003, 12:22 PM

TomToCamp

QuoteORIGINAL: TomToCamp
With the WDH seems like you are putting alot of torque somewhere.

Of course you are putting a lot of torque somewhere. Vehicles that are designed with towing in mind have taken that into account (or they specifically forbid using a WDH).

My question is are you using air bags with the F-150 or the Windstar? If you need air bags with the F-150 then something s wrong...and you may be significantly overloading it. If with the Windstar, then I have to ask what you have done to correct the significant loss of front end traction when towing?

What I can t understand (not necessarily in your case, Tom) is why when a TV manufacturer says " Don t use air bags" and " Do use a WDH" why some people insist on using air bags anyway.

Austin

SactoCampers · Apr 02, 2003, 12:33 PM

AustinBoston

QuoteWhat I can t understand (not necessarily in your case, Tom) is why when a TV manufacturer says " Don t use air bags" and " Do use a WDH" why some people insist on using air bags anyway.

Probably because the trailer specifically prohibits against a WDH and they want to tow as level as possible. I ve never seen a TV that says don t use air bags. I m sure they exist, though. Care to share?

TomToCamp · Apr 02, 2003, 02:53 PM

dlind

QuoteTom, Why remove the battery, just leave it up front.

Gary

I did this with when hauling with Windstar. With class II hitch It is only rated for 350 lbs, I must be off with the 270 lbs weight I was over with the battery on front.
The rack does add to the receiver weight I do beleive.
Your right It tows great.

QuoteWhat bike rack do you use?

Don

I have a Just-Rite 3 bike tow rack class II
Bike Racks

As for the Windstar yes I tow with it. All the stuff gets left a home.
When I tow with the van the back seat is removed = - about 100 lbs..
Took out of the camper all the junk that was never used.
Only have one child 2 1/4.

QuoteMy question is are you using air bags with the F-150 or the Windstar? If you need air bags with the F-150 then something s wrong...and you may be significantly overloading it. If with the Windstar, then I have to ask what you have done to correct the significant loss of front end traction when towing?

Austin

The Air lifts are on the Windstar. No I don t have an overloading problem.
I keep my tongue weight below hitch specs. I did have the van sag in the rear.
I don t think I have that problem. I don t over load the rear of the van. The heaviest thing in the van is the cooler and it gets put as far forward as posible.

I m not hauling a ton of weight here!
Well I quess I a m
Tom

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