RE: What is a decent days travel when vacationing?

[C. Hains]

 
My teenage grandkids and I are planning a trip from Cincinnati, OH to Yellowstone Nat l Park next summer (2004) and I wonder what a decent days drive is coming and going. The grandkids will be 14, 15 and 17 -- they are good helpers and wonderful travelers so there will be plenty of help setting up and taking down the camper, getting meals etc. []
 We took the popup to Yellowstone last summer and traveled 350 - 400 miles per day coming and going and, believe me -- that was a mistake! [: (] Fortunately my son and his family (with three little ones) towed the popup -- it wasn t just me and the three teenage grandkids but by the time we got up, got breakfast, took down the camper, took down the tent, traveled 350 to 400 miles, put up the popup, put up the tent, had dinner, etc., everyone was exhausted and a bit edgy to put it mildly! [8D]
 Once we got out to the Grand Tetons and Yellowstone we spent several nights in one place, but getting there and coming back was tough. []
 The teenage grandkids want to go again and I am more than game since we have done it once -- but would like some input on a reasonable days travel getting out there and getting back. I am wondering if ~300 miles per day is reasonable?
 What do some of you seasoned travelers who know something about teenagers think!!!!!?
 Carole
 

[tlhdoc]

 C. Hains
What would be a good days travel for one family maybe too much or not far enough for another family.  If the 350 to 400 miles a day was too long last year then defiantly shorten the distance you travel each day.  If you cut an hour or two off of you travel time each day that should help.  If you have the time, enjoy it.

[Kelly]

 C. Hains
[font=" comic sans ms" ]We have done lots of road trips with our little ones.  (I think our oldest has been to 17 states and the youngest to 9)  This will be our third season traveling with a PU.  The first year we went to MT, the second to WY and this year we are heading to the southwest.  
 
 The first two Road Trips our longest days were about 400 miles.  We did have to make some adjustments to how we traveled on those long days.  The biggest was in meals.  At the end of the day we would set up the PU at the CG and eat dinner at a local restaurant.  In the morning we d have cold cereal and hit the road early.  (We have friends who don t even bother doing the breakfast dishes until they get to a CG they are going to be at for a while)
 
 The other thing we frequently do (and no yelling at me please!) is spend the first night on the road in a motel.  That way you can get lots of miles in and have more time at your destination.  For example, this year we will spend 2 nights at motels before we reach our first CG.   After that all but 3 (out of 19) of our CG stays are for 2 nights or more.  The 3 nights that are one-nighters are shorter traveling days (for us []).
 
 Tracy makes a good point...often we don t have the time to shorten our travel days.  (wish I had unlimited vacation time!)  If you have the time ~ slow down and use it.  [/font]

[gsm x2]

 C. Hains

We took the popup to Yellowstone last summer and traveled 350 - 400 miles per day coming and going and, believe me -- that was a mistake!  Fortunately my son and his family (with three little ones) towed the popup -- it wasn t just me and the three teenage grandkids but by the time we got up, got breakfast, took down the camper, took down the tent, traveled 350 to 400 miles, put up the popup, put up the tent, had dinner, etc., everyone was exhausted and a bit edgy to put it mildly!  

 300 to 400 miles can be reasonable, but it takes a few tricks.
 
 #1:  Absolutely positively do not cook breakfast on a travel day.  That one meal will slow your departure by an hour and a half, which is at least 75 miles on the road.  Bowls of cereal in a paper bowl and a piece of fruit speed up breakfast even better than stopping in a restaurant.
 
 #2:  To economize on lunches, make sandwiches or other easy meals in rest stop areas.  They make for a nice break in the middle of the trip.
 
 #3:  If you did cereal for breakfast and sandwiches for lunch, maybe you can do a restaurant for dinner and avoid cooking completely.
 
 #4:  Vary the driving distances.  If things are getting tight one day, stop early and let people have some alone time.  Another day when everything is going smoothly, stick in a 450-500 mile day to get some miles behind you.
 
 #5:  Mentally and physically make the trip the destination, not the other way around.  Stop at historical markers and take a short side trip, or get off the Interstate for a few miles.  If the destination is the ONLY GOAL then, " Are we there yet?"  is a legitimate question.  If you are enjoying the miles, then you are ALWAYS THERE and the miles are not drudgery.
 
 gsm x2

[Ab Diver]

 C. Hains
Carole (notice I didn t say " Mr."  Hains this time [] ), you ve got some great advice so far. gsm x2 s advice will REALLY help your usable driving time. But, consider this: it may not be the miles you cover, so much as the time it takes to travel them. One of the best trips we ve had was basically an unplanned adventure, where each travel day we had an " instant"  breakfast, and drove until we felt  like we d driven enough. Then we looked for a campground, and parked for the night, usually with plenty of time for a nice campfire and BBQ ed steak, bratwurst, whatever. For us, it worked out to about 6 hours of actual driving time each day... sometimes more, sometimes less. It made each day into it s own adventure, and was a LOT of fun.
 
 The difference here is that you have a specific destination in mind, and want to get from point A to point B. I guess what I m saying is that your grandkids may be better able to deal with a 12-14 hour driving day than you will be. So plan a driving day that YOU feel like you can handle, and everything else will fall into place. You ll also enjoy Yellowstone a lot more if you arrive there refreshed by your travels, and not " wrung-out"  from them.
 
 Here s hoping you have a WONDERFUL trip!  I hope you ll share you adventures with us, and post lots of stories when you get back.

[Gone-Camping]

 C. Hains
I may be different than the bulk of the people here, but would consider 10-12 hours on the road if the whole trip can be accomplished in that amount of time. If I can t make the destination in that amount of time, I d split it off into a couple of days driving (or more)....  I ve routinely made runs from Chesapeake Va to Sturbridge Ma and always do it in a single run. Sometimes I can make it in 9 hours, but 11 is more the norm... The kids, well they just have to fidget and fuss, because when I get her rolling, she doesn t stop until it needs gas or we need food![8D]

[tlhdoc]

 Gone-Camping

 

ORIGINAL:  Gone-Camping
 
 I may be different than the bulk of the people here, but would consider 10-12 hours on the road if the whole trip can be accomplished in that amount of time.
 

 We have done a 10-14 hour drive every year since 1997.  If it is only one day we do it, but I wouldn t want to do that several days in a row when towing.  We also have stayed at a motel for a night when camping.

[Campaholics]

 C. Hains
My own spin on the excellent advice above.
 
 Kelly, I wouln t yell about nights at a motel.  During the travel phase that can add an extra couple of hours to each driving day.  Nothing to clean up, just pay up and go.  Grab and go breakfast, or juice, coffee, donuts, yogurt, etc in the TV.
 
 We have a special twelve pack size cooler just for lunches along with a picnic basket stocked with a plastic tablecloth tablecloth clips, knives forks spoons, packets of mustard ketchup etc, bread, and paper towels.  We use this all the time because who knows where we will be at lunch time.
 
 We have found Rand McNally Trip Planner software to be a good tool for planning the trip.  Add your own estimates for average speeds on classes of roads, driving starting time and ending time, start/end points, stops and layovers.  It will route you with total travel times, and times between road segments.  You can enter road segments you don t want to travel, and those that you do.  It also has points of interest along the way, and some hotel resteraunt locations.
 
 Have a great trip
 
 Bob

[AustinBoston]

 C. Hains
350-400 miles?  That s too short for us.  Ten hours on the road (500-650 miles) is close to ideal for us.  Less than that, and we start to wonder why we are sitting around at the campground instead of driving towards the destination.  Remember that if you switch from 350 to 500 miles a day, you will have two more days at Yellowstone.  However, what works best is what works best FOR YOU.
 
 Some tips for breaking things up and reducing fateague:
 
 Planning, Evening, and Morning
 
 * For overnight stops, we only set up what we really need for the night.  Often, that means not setting up the awning, hooking up water or the drain, turning on propane, etc.  That way, those things don t need to be taken down or packed up in the morning.
 
 * Again for overnight stops, we have " quick bags"  with just enough clothing for the next morning.  Suitcases stay in the van and don t have to be packed up in the morning.  School-type backpacks are good for this, and will also have room for CD s & players, gameboys, etc.  We limit the use of CD s and gameboys to the car.
 
 * Have a quick and easy-to-prepare breakfast already set up.  Cold cereal, fruit, or oatmeal, or those pancake mixes that come in a plastic bottle (just add milk), are all quick and easy.  Use disposable dishes, and plan on washing the one cooking dish (if any) that evening when you arrive.  If you use more than one cooking dish, you re using too many.
 
 * Let teenagers sleep 30-45 minutes longer than you in the morning.  The teenage body really does want to stay up  till midinght and sleep  till noon.  get up, eat a quick breakfast, take down everything you can without waking them, then get them up.  Let them know you are going to let them sleep longer, but you expect them to get right up when you do wake them.  Expect them to take 5-10 minutes anyway.  If they start the day in a good mood, it helps all day long.
 
 On The Road
 
 * We use books on tape/CD.  We have " read"  The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings trilogy, selected works by James Herroit (All Creatures Great & Small), Shackleton s Antarctic Adventure, and several others on tape or CD.  About an hour at a time is all we do, then spend some time listening to music (difficult if musical tastes are vastly different) or silence.  We also sing.  This could be difficult with teenagers, but ours (DD-19, DD-17, DS-12) do so.  It helps to have singable music on tape/CD.
 
 * There are some road games even our teens will play (but wouldn t ever admit too).  See below for some games we play.
 
 * Try to arrange things so that those sharing the driving can sleep in the car (uh, but not while driving).  I know this is impossible for some, but even 20 minutes  sleep during the day will significantly increase energy in the afternoon/evening, and makes most people more alert when it is time to drive.  More than about an hour at a time may be too much, though, and can make some people groggy for hours.  We facilitate sleeping by having neck pillows and seats that recline, headphones for those that aren t sleeping, and periods of quiet while driving.
 
 * Basically, change the pace at least every hour.  This doesn t have to include stopping, but stopping is a change of pace.  Spending an hour quietly or with gameboys, then an hour listening to books on tape, then a quick rest stop, then playing road games, then general chat, then singing, etc. makes a looooong drive significantly shorter.
 
 Rest Stops
 
 * Try running or walking at a very brisk pace at rest stops.  We will give a one- or two-minute warning before arriving at a rest stop.  This gives the kids time to get ready (ours like to ride with bare feet) or wake up.  Then we rush into the the rest area, get out of the restroom quickly, grab a quick snack, and race back to the car.  Being in and out of the rest area in 10 minutes or less is the goal, but the briskness also helps to restart sluggish circulation.
 
 * Avoid sugary snacks.  Trail mix, granola, or GORP (Good Old Peanuts & Rasins) are better.  Even salty things like potato chips or Doritos are better than sugary candy or chocolate.
 
 * Limit the number of sodas and fruit juices during the day.  Lots of sugar (yes, including fruit juice) can make anyone iritable by the end of the day.
 
 * If we have been on the road for more than 4 hours come lunch, we do not eat in the car.  We will eat whatever junk food is being sold at the rest area (hey, we eat anyting), and will eat in the rest area.  Sitting in different seats (or standing) is a necessary change.  If we don t stop for lunch, then we visit a sit down restaurant for supper, sometimes after we have stopped and set up.
 
 Games We Play
 
 * 20 Questions.  Someone says " I m thinking of something and it s blue."   Others can ask yes/no questions until someone guesses the thing.  This is starting to wear thin as our kids get older, but we still did it on our last trip.
 
 * Two-words.  use a two word noun, such as " Dog House" .  The next person has to say another two-word noun, using one of the previous two words.  Order is not important, and you can keep using the same word.  But you can t repeat a pair of words already used.  A typical game might go like this: " Dog House" //" Dog Bone" //" Guard Dog" //" Guard Shack" //" Garden Shack" //" Vegetable Garden" //" Vegetable Soup" //" Soup Kitchen" , etc.  The game ends when someone re-uses a term or can t think of anything, or after a few minutes when we get bored.  Sometimes, it is more interesting to try to re-construct a game afterwords and try to remember who said what.
 
 Yellowstone & Grand Teton
 
 If you have been to Yellowstone, and are returing to the area, then I feel you are committing a felony if you don t go see Grand Teton National Park.  It is only a few miles south of Yellowstone, and includes some of the most spectacular mountains in North America.
 
 Austin

[Foxyladies]

 C. Hains
Austin,
 
 You must be talking from experience.....I liked all your ideas, especially the games. You made me feel like it was a great adventure.....do you take stowaways???

[whitestar505]

 C. Hains
C.Hains,
 
     We plan 500 to 550 per day like this. Early morning departure 2:30-3:00 and drive the 500 milles. Most of the time it allows use to get off the road around 2 pm and crush for an hour or two. Up, dinner whatever until about 9 pm and off to dream land and up at 3 am and off. Second day we mighy do 450 miles. etc....[]
 

[AustinBoston]

 Foxyladies

ORIGINAL:  Foxyladies
 Austin,
 
 You must be talking from experience.....I liked all your ideas, especially the games. You made me feel like it was a great adventure.....do you take stowaways???
 

 We took a trip in the summer of 2001 that was, well, the mother of all pop-up trips.  We spent 52 days travelling west of the Mississippi river, popped up in about 30 campgrounds in 17 states, visited more than 20 national parks, put about 10,400 miles on the camper (and another 3,000+ miles in side-trips on the van).
 
 We had about 20 days that were more than 6 hours of driving (the rest were in the 4-6 hour category).  Although the driving could be very boring, we kept going, and going, and going...
 
 One of our games is " alphabet signs" .  You have to go through the alphabet (in order) finding the letters on road signs.  Imagine when signs are 25 miles apart how long it takes to find a " Q" !
 
 Austin

[C. Hains]

 C. Hains
Thanks to ALL of you for the great tips.  You can bet I will share the outcome of our trip with you.  I was so pleased that our grandkids wanted to go back again -- but then who wouldn t after seeing that spectacular part of the country.  This time they have specific things they want to do and specific places where they want to spend more time -- like the Badlands and the Grand Tetons.
 
 And, Ab Diver, I was kind of intimidated when I first started posting on this board and I was deliberately vague about my gender (!) so Mr. Hains was OK then [] -- who could have known?!!!
 Carole

[C. Hains]

 AustinBoston
AustinBoston,
 Thanks for the great ideas.  We did spend some time in the Grand Tetons last summer but not nearly enough.  That will be one of the places where we spend much more time the second time around!  You are correct -- the mountains ARE beautiful -- cruising down the river isn t bad either!!!