RE: Help!!! I need somebody! Help!!! Not just anybody!!!

[duanefamily]

 WANTED:  A few brave souls to listen to this newby s questions.
 
 So we went to the dealer to pick up our spanking new Niagara.  I managed to squeeze the time in this morning taking everyone s advice and checking out Eyers in Santa Clara.   They fitted me with transmission cooler and great customer service.  Then we headed to Morgan Hill.  The walk through was set for 1:00pm.  I thought we d be done in two hours.  I also imagined sunshine and the ability to come home to our mini street (it s shaped like a letter T with two spaces on each side of the top of the T).  We were going to get home before the neighbors (cause we re packed in here like rats) and back the rig into our uphill driveway (okay... you can laugh now!!!).
 
 Apparently it took 3 hours to get the wiring on the Odessey done.  By the time it was 5:00pm... it was pitch dark and raining like a motherlode!  I only sort of knew what I was doing with the brake system.  We were doing fine till we hit a hill (going down fast) and all the sudden it felt like our anti-lock breaks were jerking both the minivan and the trailer back and forth.  Not side to side as I thought " swaying"  might feel... but then again... we may not have been experiencing swaying.  I haven t a clue what we were experiencing. Do you?  We stopped the vehicle but it didn t help... so we chugged down the road till the next exit (during rush hour traffic!!!!) and pulled into a parking lot.  After we tooled around slowly... it seemed to right itself.  So we headed home on the highway and didn t have any more trouble till we got home.  
 
 What a mess.  The rain just made it miserable.  I knew I was in trouble when my neighbor told me to do one thing and my husband another.  After we almost jammed it into the hill, callled my driveway... we decided to put it in a side space at the top of the T.  Time became warped and I wondered if life existed outside of moving forward two inches and then back three.  I finally parked it near perfectly... and my neighbor proceeded to point out how any bozo could pick this think up and pull it away.  UHHHH?  Did I miss something?  I was trying to be cool like... yeah... I spent all this money and knew anyone could take it whenever they want to.  But it didn t really come off too well.  So.... HELP!!!!  What am I supposed to do?
 
 Thank y all for your kindness... I apologize as I know newbies can be a tad demanding sometimes... In the meantime... I put a lock and key on the thingy at that you lock over the ball (at the end of the triangle thingy).  I guess this prevents someone from using the hitch to tow it away... but doesn t prevent people from dragging it... or even just throwing a chain around it and taking the whole trailer away.  Does anybody get Lo-Jacks on these things... for that matter does anyone have any statistics for poptop thefts?  I m going to take a deep breath and a bubble bath now...
 
 duanefamily mamma

[Ab Diver]

 duanefamily
Yo, mama-sama---
 
 Ok, you got the Honda all rigged up and working right. That s good. What brake controller did they install? Just trying to figure out why your brakes were jerking you " back and forth" . As for backing up in the dark, spend the bucks and get a pair of FRS radios. We have the Mortorola FR60 set. 14 channels, privacy codes, call button, yada, yada, but the most important feature is they will let you *communicate* with each other without windows, nieghbors, dogs, or other distractions. And when you are backing up, ONE, and only ONE, person should be giving you directions. That way you know who to listen to, and if they direct you into a tree, you know who to blame.[]
 
 As for locking up your trailer, the simple truth is this: if they want it bad enough, they will get it. Period. That s why we have insurance. But you can make it a lot tougher to steal by doing a few simple things like getting the tongue lock that you ve already installed.  Or, you can dig a hole in the ground, cement a big iron eye-bolt in place with a few hundred pounds of Redimix, and chain the popup to the eye-bolt. This works fine if you need to secure the trailer to a single spot, such as your  property. Personally, I like to run a cable through *both* wheels and around the axle, so thieves can t simply " drag the trailer away" . Plus, it works anywhere you take the trailer, so you can secure your trailer at a camp site while you take a day trip, if you so desire.
 
 So relax... the hard part is done: you backed up the trailer for the first time. It all gets easier from here on. And remember, your first couple camp-outs sound like they will be with NNC. So don t worry, we ll take good care of you... I promise.

[sammyslave]

 duanefamily
Duanefamily..welcome to the brand new world of PUping. I remember the first time towing our Utah from those people down south. Scared the bejesuses out of me. The hitch was wrong, the brakes were not set right and there was not enough weight on the tongue. After learning from this board and getting a few trips under our belts, life is wonderful. We are having a great time and have been fortunate to have made some very good friends in a short time. I m glad to welcome you to our world and hope to see you camping with us soon.

[Diplomat]

 duanefamily
Ahh!  The first of many great PU experiences!  This will be a story that will get better with each telling as the years go by.  
 
 Congratulations on your new Niagra!

[gsm x2]

 duanefamily
duanefamily mamma,
 
 Hope you enjoyed the bubble bath.  Ab Diver is one of the smartest and nicest people on the Board.  And Sammyslave is right there in your neighborhood.
 
 Something is wrong with the between the brakes and the controller.
 
 It s at this point I would do two things.
 
 1.  Hook it up and take it over to the hitch people.  They come highly recommended and can check the setup while its hooked up.  As long as the problem is to the vehicle side of the plug, they should be able to help.  If its on the popup side of the plug, it s a warranty problem and needs to go back to the dealer
 
 2.  Let the rain go away and then come up NEXT WEEKEND to Chabot so that your MAIDEN VOYAGE will be full of FOND MEMORIES.  Even if you have to dry camp, you ll have plenty of support, batteries, battery chargers, and everything your family will need to make your first experience a GREAT EXPERIENCE.
 
 gsm x2

[AustinBoston]

 duanefamily

ORIGINAL:  duanefamily
 WANTED:  A few brave souls to listen to this newby s questions.

Some would call me brave.  Others foolhardy.
 

So we went to the dealer to pick up our spanking new Niagara.

Excellent choice, especially if you have small children.
 

We were going to get home before the neighbors (cause we re packed in here like rats) and back the rig into our uphill driveway (okay... you can laugh now!!!).

Nobody knows what they are in for until they are committed.  My wife says I should have been committed years ago, but I think she s talking about something else.
 

I only sort of knew what I was doing with the brake system.  We were doing fine till we hit a hill (going down fast) and all the sudden it felt like our anti-lock breaks were jerking both the minivan and the trailer back and forth.  Not side to side as I thought " swaying"  might feel... but then again... we may not have been experiencing swaying.  I haven t a clue what we were experiencing. Do you?

OK, time to get serious.  First, what are you using for a tow vehicle?  Second, what are you using for a brake controller?  Third, do you have a weight distributing hitch (if so, what brand and model)?  Fourth, do you have any kind of sway control?  Fifth, was the nose storage on the Niagara empty?
 

We stopped the vehicle but it didn t help... so we chugged down the road till the next exit (during rush hour traffic!!!!) and pulled into a parking lot.  After we tooled around slowly... it seemed to right itself.  So we headed home on the highway and didn t have any more trouble till we got home.

This doesn t sound like fun.  You bought the camper to have fun, right?  Let s see if we can fix this together.
 

What a mess.  The rain just made it miserable.  I knew I was in trouble when my neighbor told me to do one thing and my husband another.

PJay does most of the driving in our house, but I do near 100% of the backing up.  I do not listen to anyone unless they are yelling or screaming " STOP!"
 

After we almost jammed it into the hill, callled my driveway... we decided to put it in a side space at the top of the T.  Time became warped and I wondered if life existed outside of moving forward two inches and then back three.  I finally parked it near perfectly... and my neighbor proceeded to point out how any bozo could pick this think up and pull it away.  UHHHH?  Did I miss something?  I was trying to be cool like... yeah... I spent all this money and knew anyone could take it whenever they want to.  But it didn t really come off too well.  So.... HELP!!!!  What am I supposed to do?

The single most important factor in avoiding theft is to not attract the attention of a thief.  Is your trailer parked where it is not visible from any major street or high-traffic area?  If so, then you re halfway there.  But only halfway.
 
 On the other issues, I could say a ton that might have nothing to do with your situation.  If you answer the questions above, that would be very helpful.
 
 Austin

[Dayton Dave]

 duanefamily
Life will get better.  Congrats on your new " World Class"  trailer.  You will have many wonderful trips ahead.  Sometimes the learning curve will be very bumpy but we all have had those days and will have some like them in the future.
 
 Find a " big"  empty parking lot and practice practice practice.  Till you get some radios, you should keep your helper in your left side window at all times.  If you cannot see him or her, stop and wait till they show up.  Also, remember that when you have your hand on the bottom of the steering wheel, the direction that you move your hand (left or right) will be the direction that the rear of the trailer will go.  But you will just have to get used to the backing of your trailer.
 
 Sometimes it is just harder for some folks than others.  My dad gave up to soon and let me do all the backing.  There were other medical issues involved for him, but the idea is to keep at it till you are the resident expert.
 
 You will get there.  Good luck.

[duanefamily]

 duanefamily

First, what are you using for a tow vehicle? Second, what are you using for a brake controller? Third, do you have a weight distributing hitch (if so, what brand and model)? Fourth, do you have any kind of sway control? Fifth, was the nose storage on the Niagara empty?

 Tow Vehicle:  Honda Odessey 2002 w/transmission cooler and class 3 hitch receiver
 
 Brake Controller:  Still trying to figure out what brand.
 
 Weight Distributing Hitch:  I m in the process of getting a light duty draw tight weight distribution hitch but don t have one as yet.
 
 Sway Control:  Draw-Tight Sway bar
 
 Nose Storage:  Empty
 
 As far as the backing up... at some point I did just stop listening except if they yelled STOP.  It was at that point I was able to back it up properly.
 
 Thanks for the encouragement and help!
 
 duanefamily mamma
 
 

[jackgoesthepopup]

 duanefamily
Well you are braver then my Dw She still has not even driven our van yet.  much less drive it with the camper on it.  I have towed many a trailer. And i will give you some of my advice. I don t care who is directing me on backing up our moveing the trailer. I f i feal unconvertable about a distance i get out and look. I don t care if i have to get out 20 times .I will get out and there has been many a time i have done it also.  It s my rig so i take care of it my way. My son has ruined my flatbed trailer he was cutting wood and one of his friends was helping him back up. and he backed right into a tree .It not worth it.  I know how a small is also.

[Gamecock Camper]

 duanefamily
Be patient and you ll get good advice here.  The brake controller device that is mounted inside your vehicle should have a brand name on it.  Mine can be adjusted or set to be less sensitive or more sensitive.  I have found that if I have it on the less sensitive setting it works best.  
 
 The only thing that will help you with your backing skills is practice.  There simply is nothing that can replace experience in this area.  Some people are still better than others (like me), but you can become very competent in backing up your camper once you have the hang of it.  
 
 Don t worry.  Before you know it you will feel like a pro at all of this new stuff.   The driving, braking and backing will all be natural at some point and hopefully the biggest worry you will have is " what s for dinner"  when you are sitting back in your camp-chair around the fire with your family and friends while watching the sun-set and the stars come out.   Life is good.

[tlhdoc]

 duanefamily
Congratulations on the new PU.  I hope you have many happy trips in it.  
 
 When you back up, put your hand on the bottom of the steering wheel.  Which ever way you move your hand the trailer will go that way.  There is a little lag time to this movement.  I never go straight back, I can t.  The trailer always seems to go to one side when I back up, so I if I want to go straight I do very small curves.  I sort of zig zag back to where I want to go.  As soon as I start to move to one side i turn the wheel a little bit the other way.  Maybe this will help you.  I have my helper tell me which way the back of the PU needs to go.  Not which way the tow vehicle needs to go.  We also use drivers side and passingers side.  This helps to keep the confusion down.  It will take time but you will get it, if you keep trying.  Good luck and happy camping.[]

[duanefamily]

 tlhdoc

When you back up, put your hand on the bottom of the steering wheel. Which ever way you move your hand the trailer will go that way.

 This bit of info helped me out quite a bit.  I d say I ve improved my backing up by about 95%.  I also just stop and get out to have a look.  As someone else mentioned... when it s your rig you don t want any mistakes (or trees!) to ruin your day.  
 
 We had quite a trip this weekend.  The Alpine dude forgot to show me the little black box under the doorstep!  And guess what important piece of our RV was there?  Yep!  The crank!  Luckily... a really decent park ranger had this old piece of rebarb with a slight hook on the end.  I was able to crank up the PU just fine.   However, it didn t work on the stabilizers at all.  Thank goodness he yanked out that slide out too... cause I couldn t budge it!  Looks like I need to get in much better shape before I take off with the kiddies alone.  []
 
 It was muddy and whatnot... but it was beautiful as the fog and crisp air made it ethereal and beautiful amongst the Redwoods.  There weren t many people around the campsite which was good considering how noisy our kids turned out to be (still working on our whisper voices!).  We went to Mt. Madonna.  Everything was okay... till the hubman tried to hop into bed with me.  Yep.... no stabalizers = riding the seesaw!!!  So, we got into bed at the same time (opposite sides) and it worked fine for the night.  The next day we figured out the where that crankshaft was and things were much better.  
 
 The previous trouble I had with the vertical jerking motion was related to something called a synchronizer on the brake controller.  The folks at Eyers showed me how to mess with that.  Setting it seems more like an art than science... but I m getting used to it.  As far as the break controller goes (I think it s a draw tight), I didn t adjust it going up or down the hills and I think I probably was supposed to.  There was a 40 degree upgrade on the last hill before Mt. Madonna and the minivan really strained on it.  I might mention that every RV I heard on that hill sounded like it was struggling.  In any case that was the only part I was uncomfortable with... especially because it was making something stink (like burnt rubber).  Other than that I thought towing the Niagara with the minivan was smooth as silk.  It s about 2,800 pounds when it s not loaded and the minivan can tow 3500lbs.  We pack pretty light too.  
 
 We ran out of heat (and gas) in the middle of the second night.  I sort of remember someone complaining about their wife liking it so hot that they always run out of gas but somehow it didn t sink in until I was freezing.  Why aren t these heaters electric?  Making them gas just doesn t make any sense!  Especiallly when electricity is a set price at the campgrounds?! I guess we ll have to pack an electric space heater or something.  My electric blanket saved us from really suffering.  
 
 I might mention when I got there I couldn t release the hitch from the ball mount.  I rasied the whole thing (back end of the minivan and front end of the PUT) way up in the air and then when I lowered the crank... it groaned and fell out.  It got stuck after we came home too, only we weren t so lucky in getting it detached.  I called Coachnet and they helped me to detach the car from the hitch.  The ball mount was really torn up as it had a deep groove in it.  We did check to make sure that the hitch and the mount were the same size... but I guess something else is wrong with it.  I guess I m going to have to complain about that tomorrow and deal with the associated work! [: (]
 
 Well, we had a GREAT time even despite the weather and mishaps.  Having a PUT is defintely going to make living in " the city"  more bearable.  We look forward to camping with more intelligence in the future.  Thanks for listening and encouraging and making that a real possibility!
 
 duanefamily mamma

[gsm x2]

 duanefamily
duanefamily momma,
 
 Really glad that you had a great time---despite the mishaps.  I don t think that there is anyone who didn t have SPUTs (Stupid Pop Up Tricks) on their first trip.
 
 The NNC s had a mini-rally at Mount Madonna a few months ago.  We know that LAST HILL very well. Rubber smell could have been a belt or maybe straining transmission.  Having been warned about THE LAST HILL I shift into second to go up it.  Shifted into second to go down it on a tip from my FIL who said, " The rule of thumb is to use the same gear going down a hill as you use going up."
 
 Sounds like a new ball is in order.  Yes, that was one of my early SPUTS too.  It sounds like yours might be because the hitch release is too tight on the ball.  If you look under the hitch release you ll see that there is bolt used to adjust the tension.  I think you may want to loosen that nut a bit.
 
 It also may be possible that you gouged your ball in the same way I gouged mine.  I had the safety chains too short and took the trailer on hairpin turns---and Mount Madonna has some pretty good curves too.  By being too tight, when I went around the hairpin turn, the slack would come out of the chain on one side to the point that the chain was completely tight.  The chain would then pull the hitch release into the ball and the ball got gouged.
 
 However, since you are having trouble getting your hitch off the ball, I think that may be the problem.  BTW--when that happens, lower the hitch back down, the tap on the hitch release, then reach under and pull the retaining plate down.  The hitch should release after you do that.
 
 If you are going to camp with electricity, the electric ceramic space heaters work really well.  I think Vernado is a name people swear by here.  The one we got works well for us.  It has a thermostat and then has a safety feature that it turns off if the heater is picked up or falls over.  Not only saves on propane, but much quieter and keeps the PU at a more even temperature.
 
 Glad you found your crank.  Can t believe that you got to spend a night without them down.  There is a certain rural legand about a young couple who poppup up their PU without putting down their stabilizers.  They climbed in for some afternoon delight and rolled right out of the tent ends when their see-saw went down.
 
 Best part of this adventure is that you said you had a GREAT TIME.  So glad.  Hope to meet your family at a future NNC event.
 
 gsm x2

[forestwalker]

 gsm x2
Sounds somewhat like our first trip ! We lived through it-loved it, too ! Glad to hear that you did.It does get easier with experience....
  PS-We dont live far from the South Bay-Perhaps we ll see you all camping some day.

[AustinBoston]

 duanefamily

 

ORIGINAL:  duanefamily
 Tow Vehicle:  Honda Odessey 2002 w/transmission cooler and class 3 hitch receiver

OK...there is something you need to know.  First, I am assuming the 2003 Oddysey is the same as the 2002, which may not be the case.
 
 The Oddysey is rated to tow 3,500 lbs.  But there is some fine print with that.  It requires a load distributing (aka weight distributing aka equalizing) hitch.  Unless Honda is unusual, then that 3500 lbs. is with the driver and a tank of gas, and nothing else in the van.  (Some comapies spec with one passenger.  Only Subaru is known to publish tow ratings with a fully loaded vehicle).  As you add occupants and luggage, the weight of those things comes off the tow rating.  That would not be a problem, except that the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the Niagara is about 3500-3600 lbs. (Older ones were 3500 lbs, the 2003 s are 3600 lbs.  I m not sure about the 2002 s)  If you are going to tow with the Oddysey, you either need to leave the passengers behind, or leave the camper empty.  This is one situation where you really need to periodically weigh your rig when loaded for a trip because it will be easy to go over -- way over -- on weight.
 
 

Brake Controller:  Still trying to figure out what brand.

This can make a huge difference in how (and how well) the trailer brakes work.
 
 

Weight Distributing Hitch:  I m in the process of getting a light duty draw tight weight distribution hitch but don t have one as yet.
  <snip>
 Nose Storage:  Empty

You will need the WDH once the nose storage is in use.  It is important to fill it.  In order for a trailer to tow properly, you need 10%-15% of the trailer s weight to be on the tongue.  (With the WDH, it s more like 12%-15%).  That much weight will remove too much weight from the front end, and the WDH will restore that weight.  Very important with front wheel drive.
 
 Good luck and enjoy your camper.
 
 Austin