RE: Hybrid owners

[Foxyladies]

 
Sunday I went to the RV show in Hartford, CT and looked at all the Hybrids. There was quite a few to look at. How does one know what to choose or what company puts out  a good one? If you were to listen to all the dealers, they all carry the best ones. I would love to own at least a 23ft with a slide out. I want to have room to bring my grandchildren. Is there a size that I shouldn t even look at or maybe should at least think about. It may provide the space I need without costing me a arm or a leg.  Thanks for any input!

[Ernhrts3n8]

 Foxyladies
Just a few questions that sis wanted me to ask for her.
 
 1.  Can you leave the beds made up when folded?
 
 2.  When you pull the beds out, what type of support system is there?
 
 3.  Is it easier to set up than a pop-up, if so, how?
 
 4. What differences did you notice in the set up compared to a pop-up?
 
 5.  What is the approximate set-up time?
 
 6.  Is it worth the extra money as opposed to a pop-up.
 
 Foxy would like honest answers here, please no sugar coating.  (She loves details, details, details).

[byrdr1]

 Ernhrts3n8
Mind you I do not have a hybrid but I have been looking for nearly a year.
 I was at Rv show this past weekend and I spend quality time in the hybrids.
 
 1.  Can you leave the beds made up when folded?
 The mattress is folded in half or at least 1/4 of it and it is held in place by straps over the opening. The bed folds up and the mattress is folded up with it. It would be hard to leave made up.
 
 2.  When you pull the beds out, what type of support system is there?
 Some have the standard double pole under the bunkend with a support strap from the outside corner to the inside corner, Some do not have this support strap.
 
 3.  Is it easier to set up than a pop-up, if so, how?
 You open both bunkends and close the canvas just about like the popups. You crank down stablizers and your pull open awning like a big rig. You still have to hook up water, cable, power and NOW sewer hoses. You dont have to open(crank it up) to load before leaving home, you just load throught the door like a TT, unlike a PU. NO cranking involved.. The set-up is just about the same as with any RV. The timeing may be a little less or a little more.. This about the only thing I can t answer.
 
 4. What differences did you notice in the set up compared to a pop-up?
 Maybe not a lot but the ease of setting up may be better.
 
 5.  What is the approximate set-up time?
 again not sure?
 
 6.  Is it worth the extra money as opposed to a pop-up.
 I would like to think so, as I am looking real hard at one. Mainly I want the room one would offer to my family. I like the fact that the beds are still close to popping up/out.. Windows open on all 3 side of the popped out section so if the weather is right you would have 6 windows open plus the glass ones on the camper body.
 I like the fact that when I get ready to go, all I have to do is throw clothes and groceries into the fuller sized frig  by way of the walk in door and more cabinets. MORE storage. Ease of loading and unloading. No more cranking up and down before and after a trip. Maybe I could load the bikes in the back of the truck instead of coolers and sterlite drawers of clothes and rubbermaid tubs with food stuff in them. plus the charcoal grill and charcoal. My smoke pots with oil for the bugs.. You see where I going here..
 
 Foxy would like honest answers here, please no sugar coating.  (She loves details, details, details).
 I hope this will help you some what. Others that have hybrids can expand on these answers but these are my observations on the hybrids and some of the reasons I am looking at them hard and fast.. Plus I aint getting any younger.
 And one more thing if you get the right hybrid, if it was raining when you stopped to set up, you dont have to open the bunk ends right away to set-up. you could have most the set up done and not open the bunk ends to sleep. Or you could stop on a longer trip and rest or eat in the camper..
 Randy
 

[CampinCrazy]

 Foxyladies
I m interested in the feedback on these as well.  We have 2 mini-campers and seem to spend the first and last hours of camping trying to keep them out of the way while we pack/unpack, pop/unpop.  Plus we do some travel to family and it would be great to camp a night during the trip, or take a driving break in the camper.
 Sorry to those who consider it the dark side, but we may be looking into the hybrids later this year as well.

[Y-Guy]

 Foxyladies
Roseann, you ask some big questions.  Which is the best? That all depends on what you are looking for.
 
 In our area I was limited because some of the makes were not available.  I really liked the quality I saw in the Bantam line, generally seemed well throughout and used good materials.  Local dealer wanted 18k for a 22  and wasn t willing to negotiate, and I wasn t going to pay that much. I heard good things about the Cub, but couldn t find one in this area to look at, if you can find one check them out I ve heard a lot of good comments about them.  Rockwood/Flagstaff, we saw one Rockwood and we didn t care for the materials or craftsmanship.  I know plenty of Rockwood owners love theirs, maybe we saw one built Friday at 4PM but it just looked cheaply made to me.  Starcrafts looked great on paper, saw a few and I ve seen one up-close since our purchase.  I liked these and had we not bought ours I probably would have been looking harder at the Starcraft. In the end though we went with a 23  Jayco Kiwi 23D.  The floor plan is what we liked most of all, no u-dinette, nice slide out, couch was long enough to lay on fully stretched out, plenty of wardrobe storage and has an extra bunk atop the wardrobe, which was a major factor for us.  So far its been a great camper, the only wish I has was that it had a larger rear bed.  But with the extra bunk its not a huge deal.
 
 Commonly called " Hybrid" , " Expandable"  or " Lite"  you can find the various models listed below.  I think I have a complete list, but as always things are changing.  Rumors are that Fleetwood will discontinue the Triplets in 2003.  There are other types of hybrids which are not on my list such as the TrailManor, Hi-Lo, Chalet, etc.
 
 Kiwi by Jayco - http://www.jayco.com
 Koala by Sun Valley - http://www.sunvalleyinc.com
 K-Z Coyote and Ultralite - http://www.kz-rv.com
 Palomino Stampede by Vanguard - http://www.palominorv.com
 Mesa by Apache RV - http://www.apacherv.com
 
 Bantam by Trail-Lite - http://www.trail-lite.com
 Trail-Cruiser by Trail-Lite* - http://www.trail-lite.com
 
 Antigua by Starcraft - http://www.antiguarv.com
 Travelstar by Starcraft - http://www.starcraftrv.com
 
 Flagstaff Shamrock by Forest River - http://www.forestriverinc.com
 Rockwood Roo by Forest River - http://www.forestriverinc.com
 
 Cabana by Keystone/Thor Industries - http://www.thorindustries.com
 Cub by Aerolite/Thor Industries - http://www.thorindustries.com
 Kodiak by Skamper/Thor Industries - http://www.thorindustries.com
 Tahoe Lite by Thor Industries - http://www.thorindustries.com
 Wanderer Lite by Thor California - http://www.thorindustries.com
 
 Caravan by Coleman/Fleetwood - http://www.colemantrailers.com
 Terry Dakota by Fleetwood - http://www.fleetwoodrv.com/towables.asp
 Prowler Lynx by Fleetwood - http://www.fleetwoodrv.com/towables.asp
 Wilderness Yukon by Fleetwood - http://www.fleetwoodrv.com/towables.asp
 
 *You won t find any good specs on the Trail-Cruiser on the manufacturer website, check out http://www.campersfactoryoutlet.com instead for pictures, specs and layouts.

[Hybrid Holly]

 Foxyladies
Hi Roseann,
 Kiwifamily gave you lots of good info and links.  For more info from those who own different brands, check out the Yahoo hyrbidRV Group.
 http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/HybridRV/?yguid=121772665
 
 We love our Bantam, but every family wants something a little different.
 
 Good luck!
 
 

[Foxyladies]

 Foxyladies
Randy,
 
 Thank you for a complete and detail, detail , detail report. To be honest, I don t think I saw an Bantam at the RV show. I like the ones without the U dinettes too.
 I did notice that they had more room infront  of them by the kitchen than the ones split down the middle with couch and dinette. If I was to go that way, I would need to get a slide out. Oh, well. I was surprised to read that you can t keep the bed made. That must be a pain.
 
 Y-Guy,
 
 Thanks for all the websites for the hybrids. You have more than what I saw. At the show, they had a Cabana and this company called RV.com or something like that had the cabanas real cheap. My next thought is.....are they cheaply made?
 
 
 Thanks for the great info! Happy Camping!

[Y-Guy]

 Foxyladies
Take a close look at the Cabana s, I think (note think) they are a wood frame not a aluminum frame so check the weights.
 
 As for making the bed, some have ways of doing it leaving them made up.  The folks on the Yahoo group have discussed this in depth in the past.   Since we use sheets and prefer to wash them after each trip its not a big dea, my wife has the setup/take down pretty good, almost an art by now.  
 
 One thing to note that is an issue is the posted weights vs. real weights.  Members on the yahoo forum began to weigh their campers, I was surprised how many were off significantly from what was posted.  Even taking into account the options they seemed a lot heavier.  I m not sure what you are towing with but its something to check into before you jump.

[dee106]

 Foxyladies
hey darlene,
 
 well, you knew our  old popup, we went and traded it for a starcraft travel trailer with the full slide, and we love it.  to answer your questions i will do my best.
 
 1. the beds linens : On our trailer we can leave only the bottom sheet on, because its a tight fitting when you fold it up, we have a shelf to store the bedding on, takes five minute to make the bed.
 
 2, the support are like the ones we had on the pu.  you release the two locks on the outside, and lower the beds on the same styles braces, takes two minutes!
 
 also if you only need one bed you don t have to open both like the popup!
 
 3. it is much easier to set up, you level it like any other trailer, you turn on your gas, drop the sides, put down the stablizers, like on the popup, plug in the w/e and sewer if you have and your done, all done in less the 10 minutes. (two people doing it) and if you have a slide you crank it out, or if you are rich you push the button and watch it slide, crank is much easier then  the pu, takes 30 seconds to crank it out, and ours is a full slide goes out three feet. nothing like cranking up the popup,
 
 4 it is much easier to set up, and if it s raining you can go inside and move around and sit on the couch or at the table with out opening it, and you can use the bathroom too the couch pulls open to make a 3/4 bed, and the table folds like the pu to a full size bed, so if you don t have alot of people u can sleep with out opening it.
 
 5. set up 10 minutes after leveling it
 
 6. we think it s worth the money, as you know we camp a lot, and we come in late to campgrounds, so when its just the two of us, we can leave it hooked up to the van, and go inside and crash, which is great when we are doing a long haul, also when we go to rest areas, we can go into the trailer like you do with your TT  and make lunch use your own bathroom, etc. which is nice, also you can nap at a rest stop, and really rest!
 
 7.  oh yea and the purks are great too, we have a micro oven, and standard oven, a four burner stove, stereo with cd player,   we also have a fridgator and freezer so we can store ice cream and make ice cubes the thing ken like most is you push a button inside to lite the water heater and the furance, plus they have automatic gas tank change over, so you don t have to go out during the night you change the gas tank over on those cold or wet nights.
 
  Everything is in it s place i don t have to use rubbermaid containers! to put the clothes and stuff in.  plus a full bathroom with a door!  and large holding tanks, a/c and heat of course!
 
 also you have a lot more room in these unit, because the beds are on the outside also if you have the slideout  you have more walking/living area.  specially with your group. in our unit four people can walk around without bumping into each other, great for rainy days!
 
 the down side , the storage of the unit it s 8 feet wide and 23 ft. long so u need more room,  also the back bunk is a cold bunk, the heat doesn t get to it as well, we use and electric blanket, or a cermic heater facing that area.
 
 and like any travel trailer you need a full size van or truck to pull it.
 
 hope i answered your questions!

[campertime]

 Foxyladies
After 4 years with the pop up we purchased a kiwi 23b at the end of the season last year. We were able to take one trip at the end of October before putting her away for the winter. So I m not a hybrid veteren in any way but I will try to answer your ? s as best that I can.
 
 1. Can you leave the beds made up when folded?
 I don t think you could, but we haven t tried. We are however a sleeping bag family so making the beds is pretty quick.
 
 2. When you pull the beds out, what type of support system is there?
 On our Kiwi the beds fold out and are supported with poles. The same way pop up beds are supported. I will say that the beds are much easier to set up. They are light enough that my DW can actually do them. (she couldn t slide the pop up beds out - too heavy)
 
 3. Is it easier to set up than a pop-up, if so, how?
 I think they are easier to set up than the pop up. Set up time is quicker because with the pop up you have added time and work with cranking the roof, setting up the awning, inserting the door and raising the galley.
 
 4. What differences did you notice in the set up compared to a pop-up?
 See #3
 
 5. What is the approximate set-up time?
 I would say after you pull in and get level it takes another 10-15 minutes to fold down the beds, pull out the awning, lower stabilizers and hook up electric, water & sewer.
 
 6. Is it worth the extra money as opposed to a pop-up?
 This question is kind of hard to answer. I think it depends on how much you ll be using it. We used the pop up 6-10 times per year. If we use the hybrid that much my answer would be YES.
 
 Advantages over our pop up:
 Easier/Quicker setup
 Full bath
 Bigger Fridge
 Freezer
 Microwave
 Built in Gray/Black water tanks
 CD/Stereo sound system
 More Storage
 Easier to pack
 Bigger easier awning
 
 Disadvantages over pop up:
 Bigger/Heavier to tow (gas mileage reduction)
 Bigger blind spot (can t see over top behind you)
 Can t fit on smaller sites
 Occassional 20 minute wait for dumping station

[tahoecampers]

 Foxyladies
To those of you Kiwi owners, what do you tow with? We are in the process of buying a used Ford 150, V8  (smallest V8).  Our current Ford is a strait 6. We are considering a Hybrid in the future, as I am not willing to give up the open bunkends []

[Y-Guy]

 Foxyladies
tahoecampers... well right now we re towing with a Chevy Avalanche with a V-8 5.3L with 4.10 rear axles.  Now, we had a F-150XLT V-8 with the 5.6L engine but it only had 3.08 rear axles.  Comparing the two really isn t fair.  The F-150 was nice, but the Av is a dream.  Towing wise the Av runs circles around our old F-150.  The Av has the larger rear axles which makes a HUGE difference when towing.  This is the one key mistake I made when I got the F-150.  Don t buy anything with a 3.08.  The Av had two options 3.73 or 4.10, for mileage purposes the 3.73 would have been my preference, but in reality the difference is so small in mileage that I am thrilled with the 4.10.  After towing last weekend up a small grade and having the Av barely breath hard it was sure nice to zip up the hills.  The Av, as do the Suburbans, has a Tow/haul mode which is designed for towing and did make a difference as well.  I m not putting down the F-150 line at all, just make sure whatever you buy that is it setup to tow properly.  Since you are buying used you need to check online to find the codes for the rear axles ratios so you know for sure before you buy... and don t trust the seller or dealer when you buy, check for yourself. I am pretty sure there is a code sheet in the owners manual, if not might check out www.f150online.com I m sure they have information.  Last thought, think a head and buy a head.  We bought a TrailBlazer which is a great rig, but wasn t really up to the task of towing our hybrid based on lengths.  Luckily the trade in was still pretty good so we didn t take a bath, but that was just luck and timing.

[bikolee]

 Y-Guy

Last thought, think a head and buy a head.

 This is just another reason I m looking at the Silverado Z71 LT. ext. cab for my next truck.

[SheBantam]

 Foxyladies
1. Can you leave the beds made up when folded?
 To a point, I cannot leave the comforters on it, but can leave the sheets
 
 2. When you pull the beds out, what type of support system is there?
 The Bantam has poles that go into the special holes in the tongue and inder the bumper in the back
 
 3. Is it easier to set up than a pop-up, if so, how?
 Yes, I do not have to crank, just unscrew the latches and drop the beds, I have the pole in the holes before the bed comes down.
 4. What differences did you notice in the set up compared to a pop-up?
 The sewer is as easy as poening a little door, pulling out the stinky slinky and twisting it on.  The water and electric is identical.  With the double axile, I cannot just throw the floor jack under the trailer on the frame and life the low side. I use bottle jack to life and a jack stand to hold, the put the stablizers down.
 
 5. What is the approximate set-up time?
 Because the awning is easier to pull out and put in, and because the door is already standing and a lot of the stuff is already in place, the time is cut in about half for the normal set up of the Jayco. We spent a lot of time getting stuff out and up into reachable place, now I have sterlite drawers and I do not have to worry about how high something is and will it catch on the canvas or roof as it is coming down,
 
 6. Is it worth the extra money as opposed to a pop-up.
 Oh yes. I bought my B-21 used.It has no slide. And it has a semi real bathroom (great for little bitty people or in an emergency)
 
 You said that you did not want a u-shaped lounge.  I love mine. the table goes outside under the awning and I have a sofa that way. Also with the long trips we have taken, we can pack up and fold up and still ahve some place to sleep. Jeffrey gets the small dinette and Raymond and I get the u-shaped.  When we are ready to leave, the coolers get stowed, the plug gts unplugged and put up, the water has been diconnected as well as the sewer if we has a hook up and we are hitched up ready to go.
 
 My 21  will comfortably sleep 6 or 7 if you want to crawl over the u-shaped lounge.
 
 Paula