RE: Seems extreme at first but...

[Turn Key]

 Sorry, but but after " sleeping on it"  a bit I can t say that I agree with what was said in this article.  I regret having posted it to begin with.  I ve e-mailed " Admin"  and requested that they completly remove this thread but if they don t, I have exercised my right as original poster to delete my part.  I apologize for my part in this thread.
 
 Happy Camping.
 
 
 
 
 
 

[mike4947]

 Turn Key
It is also very racist, seems he believes in the constitution for himself and others he deems as Americans as long as they are not of arab decent.  
 Smacks of the 60 s " love it or leave it"  mentality. He wonders why the arab community, who are in the majority American born, has closed it s doors when confronted with his retoric. If someone acted this way towards me I d be locking the doors and keeping the drapes drawn.
 IMHO he d be morally outraged if someone told him, because pilots have been caught drunk in cockpit, therefore all pilots should have to prove every time they get on a airplane that they are sober.
 Just another jingoistic, racial profiling, self serving, fear of the unknow message.

[angelsmom10]

 Turn Key
It have been this way forever -- in the 40 s it was also Germans.  My family had the same situation as they were immigrants from Austria and Hungary, but still classified as Germans
 
 (on a not as serious point - []I guess my grandparents taking out the Nazi street banner and washing it and hanging it out to dry - no dryers at the time -  it was not their belief, but every year, everything got taken out of drawers and re-washed and put back away - hopefully I ll inherit when my mother passes.[][] - just for the collectability of it)

[brainpause]

 Turn Key
Sorry, but I agree with every word of it.
 
 Matter of fact, I rescind my " Sorry."  I m not sorry that I agree with it.
 
 Larry

[Steve-o-bud]

 Turn Key
Everyone has a right to their own opinion, that s what is great about our country!
 
 When we profile folks, based  upon their appearence or their accents, we are heading in the wrong direction. We become no better than those of our enemy s, who would like to impose their intollerance, their hate, their totalitarism.
 
 If a person from Mexico committed a terrorist act, would it be right to question the loyalty of all hispanic appearing persons?
 
 How about those folks who terrorized Oklahoma City? Do we question the loyalty of all caucassions?
 
 In my house, we believe that it s the action that s judged, not the appearence or origin of someone.
 
 99% of the people in this world just want to live their lives in peace, make a decent living for their families, and hopefully, improve their lot in life, and make it better for the next generation. We may not understand or even agree with their culture, but deep down inside, most people are good.
 
 What makes our nation great, is that as whole, we do things for the right reason. We attempt to bring freedom to those who are oppressed. We are willing to lay it all on the line. We believe in the individual. And, we believe that most people are good, and when it s time to solve a problem, we have faith that we can overcome any obstacles through our willpower, teamwork, and our intellegence. And, we recognize and learn from our mistakes.
 
 Our Nation s biggest mistakes occured when we took an approach of intollerance and predjudice. The genocide of the Native Americans. Slavery. Putting law abiding Japeneese citizens in prison camps. Jim Crowe.
 
 Thank God we have learned from our mistakes. Perhaps the author of the piece can learn from their mistake.
 
 

[angelsmom10]

 Steve-o-bud

 

ORIGINAL:  Steve-o-bud
 
 .....
 
 In my house, we believe that it s the action that s judged, not the appearence or origin of someone.
 
 ........
 

DITTO -- same in our house.  No prejudice is tolerated - none of any kind.

[kathybrj]

 Turn Key
Tim McVeigh was a terrorist. He also looked like any average middle American kid.

[CajunCamper]

 Turn Key
A few years ago when a few whackos calling themselves Christians were blowing up abortion clinics in the name of God, it looked really bad for the whole Christian faith, as a matter of fact non-Christians were labeling all Christians as being accesories to the crime. 99% of Christian Americans felt that the bombings were horrible and not a reflection of the Christian faith. Because of this, Christian leaders, as well as members of the Christian faith went public to condemn the bombings and to explain the Christians beliefs.  I think the airline pilot makes a very valid point, by simply asking the leaders of the Muslim faith to condemn the attacks on America both here and abroad and explain their position. There was a comment earlier about pilots being caught boarding flights after they had a few drinks and should all pilots be required to take a breath test? Well as far as I m concerned it sounds like a good idea to me to protect the passengers. We all suffer the consiquences of the evil doings of a few. For example, everytime I write a check at a Wal-Mart, or my local grocer, they assume that I m trying to pass stolen checks because they always want to look at my drivers liscense to verify my identity. That s just an inconvenience I have to put up with because of the evil doings of a smaller group of people. Last year we had a serial killer on the loose her in Louisiana and the description of the guy was a white male, medium build, with blonde hair. A couple of thousand innocent men fitting that description were asked to answer questions and submitt to a DNA swab, because of the evil doings of one person. That s just the way it is. It s not prejudice. If the highjackers were of Irish decent, we would  be very leary of every red headed American with an Irish last name. That s just the way it is. No reason to call people racist because of it. Just cause exist today to be cautious of folks of a certain culture and religion that have proclaimed to hate Americans and have said they will do anything they can to kill Americans. Because of the evil of a few the rest of these folks are suffering consiquences brought on them, not by White Americans, or Black Americans, or Asian Americans or Hispanic Americans, but by Arab Americans and Arabs visiting our country. It s dangerous and iresponsible to put blinders on and pretend that the folks that hate us and want to kill us have a nutural identity, hey I d like to all hold hands and sing KumBaYa just like the next guy, but I m not going to let down my guard in the name of plotical correctness, or for fear of being labelled myself.

[Steve-o-bud]

 CajunCamper
Some great points.
 
 

ORIGINAL:  CajunCamper
 
 

A few years ago when a few whackos calling themselves Christians were blowing up abortion clinics in the name of God, it looked really bad for the whole Christian faith, as a matter of fact non-Christians were labeling all Christians as being accesories to the crime.

 I agree that labeling all Christians as accessories to abortion clinics was and is wrong. Just like labeling any other group. I think this proves my point.
 
 

Because of this, Christian leaders, as well as members of the Christian faith went public to condemn the bombings and to explain the Christians beliefs. I think the airline pilot makes a very valid point, by simply asking the leaders of the Muslim faith to condemn the attacks on America both here and abroad and explain their position.

 It would be great for the Arab-American community to have their leadership condemn terrorism. As a matter fact, many publicly did. However, I think it is wrong to imply that if they don t, then they are part of the problem. In this country, you are innocent until proven guilty... asking for pledges of allegiances, etc., smacks of McCarthyism.
 
 

There was a comment earlier about pilots being caught boarding flights after they had a few drinks and should all pilots be required to take a breath test? Well as far as I m concerned it sounds like a good idea to me to protect the passengers.

 As long as the entire pilot population is subjected to the same testing, or random sampling, I m fine with this. Just don t single out pilots who look or sound a particular way.
 
 

We all suffer the consequences of the evil doings of a few. For example, everytime I write a check at a Wal-Mart, or my local grocer, they assume that I m trying to pass stolen checks because they always want to look at my drivers liscense to verify my identity. That s just an inconvenience I have to put up with because of the evil doings of a smaller group of people. Last year we had a serial killer on the loose her in Louisiana and the description of the guy was a white male, medium build, with blonde hair. A couple of thousand innocent men fitting that description were asked to answer questions and submitt to a DNA swab, because of the evil doings of one person. That s just the way it is. It s not prejudice. If the highjackers were of Irish decent, we would  be very leary of every red headed American with an Irish last name. That s just the way it is. No reason to call people racist because of it.

 There are plenty of Irish terrorists in the world. And British terrorists for that matter. Just go to Belfast and see. However, I don t see anyone calling for red-headed Irish Americans to renounce terrorism. I don t accept " Just the way it is" , if this country did, we d probably still have Jim Crowe. And, in this country, I don t have to provide a DNA swab based upon the appearance of my origin, the only way I can be compelled to do so is if there is just cause. I can legally refuse. If Wallmart wants to seem my driver s liscence, fine, as long as they ask everyone to do so.
 
 

Just cause exist today to be cautious of folks of a certain culture and religion that have proclaimed to hate Americans and have said they will do anything they can to kill Americans. Because of the evil of a few the rest of these folks are suffering consequences brought on them, not by White Americans, or Black Americans, or Asian Americans or Hispanic Americans, but by Arab Americans and Arabs visiting our country. It s dangerous and iresponsible to put blinders on and pretend that the folks that hate us and want to kill us have a nutural identity, hey I d like to all hold hands and sing KumBaYa just like the next guy, but I m not going to let down my guard in the name of plotical correctness, or for fear of being labelled myself.

 The consequences of many innocent people dying were brought on by a small group of terrorists, who were from the middle east. The consequence of prejudice against Arab-Americans is brought on by those who are willing to single out one group for disparate treatment. Capitulating to predjudice furthers the goals of the terrorists.
 
 Don t let your guard down. Be cautious, however, because if you are only looking at middle eastern folks as terrorists, you ll miss the many other terrorists who are out there. Sept. 11 could have been carried out by any other origin of terrorists.
 
 I would never want us to be complacent. Just even handed. If you are going to ask for pledges of allegiance, or renunciations of terrorism, fine. Just ask everyone. Subject everyone to the same screening, the same questions. If a certain part of the world poses more of a risk, go ahead and screen flights to those areas more vigorously, regardless of the color of the person getting on or off the plane.
 
 Don t make the mistake of presuming that just because some guy is of middle eastern origin, that he is not as loyal an American as you are.
 
 In WWII, a bunch of Japanese folks had their homes and businesses taken, and sent to camps for the duration. Was that a good decision? In hindsight, many people don t think so. I will concede, however, that if I were FDR at the time, and my country was in great danger, I might have done the same thing, consider this nation was fighting for our survival and the survival of the free world. Fear might have motivated me into making that mistake. However it is not logical to conclude, that just because someone was of Japenses origin, that they were not loyal to the U.S.
 
 I think that the struggle against terrorism is similarly a struggle for survival for the entire world. I think part of the struggle is not to slip and let prejudice become  just the way it is."
 
 P.S. I appreciate the fact that we can have a discussion of these issues. We all have our opinions, and mine may be misguided. In matters such as these, I feel it is my duty as an American to speak out.
 
 

[CajunCamper]

 Turn Key
Steve-o-bud, I like a man that states his opinion and feels strongly about it. I too am thankful that we live in a country that allows us to have different opinions and to discuss them freely. I was raised in the south at a time when black Americans didn t have the same rights as I did being white. I remember speperate water fountains labelled " White"  and " Black" . I grew up in a small community where it was very visible where the white neighborhoods ended and where the black neighborhoods began. I still remember when I was only about 7 or 8 how odd it seemed when I would ask a question to an elderly black man or black woman and they would respond to me with either " yes sir"  or " no sir" . I remember eating in cafaterias where there was a partition and behind that partition were three or four tables and that is where the blacks were allowed to eat. Because of this all of us in the south that were white were considered to be racist, members of the KKK, or decendants of slave owners. I remember my mother threatning to wash my mouth out with soap if she ever heard me use the word " Niger" . Sorry if that offended anyone, but I think by referring to it as the N word lessens the impact of how aweful and hurtful the word is. Anyway, my parents taught me to see everyone equal as God sees them just as most parents did here in the south. The large majority of whites in the south at that time didn t want to see any harm come to the blacks in our community or anywhere, we we ren t all running around looking for someone to linch, but that s the perception of many from other parts of the country. I know what racism is, I have starred it in the face, I grew up dealing with it, but never bought into it. Years later, I played football in college and one of my buddies on the team was a black guy that grew up in a town about 100 miles from where I grew up. During the summer one day, I decided to drive out his way and pay him a visit. When I got to his house we hung out, listened to music, watched tv just goofed off. As it began to get later in the day, his mom said she thought I should probably head home before it got too late, well I said it s not even dark yet so I think I ll be okay. And she said " Honey, you don t understand, you don t want to be a white boy in this part of town at night, it isn t safe. So I took her advice and left. She wasn t prejudice, and most in that neighborhood weren t either, but she knew there was an elament in that neighborhood that would rip me to pieces if they had a chance.  I have many Arab friends through my church and feel as close to them as anyone else I know, but they also keep an eye out for those in their Arab community that may simpathize with the terrorist, they know the people we need to fear are not fron Norway, but from Muslim nations. I will end with this. Yesterday was the 40th anniversary of the " I have a dream"  speech by the late Dr. Martin Luther King and if you have never heard or read this speech from start to finish, you need to. It is truly a dream worth fighting for.

[Steve-o-bud]

 CajunCamper
It s interesting... my mother, grandmother, and grandfather came to this country in 1950. They were originally from Yugoslavia, but durring the war, because of their German surname, they were kicked out, and lived as Displaced Persons in Austria. They lived with a family that had taken them in for 5 years, then decided to imigrate, and were granted entrance to the U.S. They didn t speak or write the English language.
 
 Their port of entry was New Orleans. They had never seen a black person, until then, and didn t know why people got mad at them for entering a  black  store. They settled in Los Angeles, sponsered by the Catholic Church. They worked hard, my grandfather was a laborer, and my grandmother was a house cleaning lady. Eventually, they had a home, and tried to ensure that us grandkids had a decent education.
 
 My grandmother turned out to be a modern thinking women. Actually, she was more predjudiced about other Europeans, and seemed to be pretty tollerant and embracing of other cultures.
 
 I m glad things have changed. Thanks for sharing your point of view, and a snapshot of how things have changed in your neck of the woods. And, I would be making a mistake if I labeled those who have different opinions as mine as a racist.