RE: Oh oh...going against the teacher!

[B-flat]

 Camperroo
...can t wait to hear what happens on Monday.

[DiW]

 Camperroo
When I first read this the other day, I figured the teacher may have noticed some problem in that general vicinity and mistakenly " assumed"  it was the kids she named. Having spent a lot of time in schools at assemblies and also in church with CCD classes, I have been in the position of noticing trouble, but sometimes it s hard to pinpoint who started it (hopefully it has ended by the time you get over there to investigate). In these cases, usually an adult presence is all that is needed to quiet things down again or a general " SHHHH" . Things quiet down and such is life (and childhood). In this case, the teacher said it was repeated bad behavior. If so, why didn t she take some action at the time? Even during mass, I ve seen CCD instructors or nuns (in my school days) walk over to settle kids down. If things were so bad, I can t believe the teacher would have allowed the behavior to continue all through mass. It sounds like exaggeration here.
 
 My biggest problem with this is the confession the children had to write. It s a great disservice to tell children they must confess to something they didn t do. I m all for taking responsibility for our wrongs, but this goes too far.  I think you need to get to the bottom of this to reinforce to kids that when they do something wrong, they should admit it and deal with the consequences. If they don t do something wrong, they should stand up and proclaim their innocence. Isn t that what our court system tells us? Oh yea, then again, defendants are told to plea bargain whether they re guilty or not [:@].
 
 BTW, I m glad you were there to witness this. Imagine the position you d be in if you didn t know what to believe. If you were there, you saw what really happened and certainly would have noticed prolonged bad behavior. Is it possible that the kids were a little itchy (as kids in church usually are) and the teacher blew this out of proportion? Did you notice if any kids a couple rows up or back were a little antsy and the teacher may have blown that out of proportion?
 
 In MY experience, some of the people in church have highly unrealistic expectations of children during mass (perhaps that s why in some religions they send children out for instruction during most of the service). I know a woman who sits behind her children (who must sit in the front pew) and if they take their eyes off the priest or fidget in anyway, she slaps them on the head to remind them to pay attention. I m won t get into the " Spare the rod, spoilen the child"  bit. I just mean to point out that different people have different meanings of proper behavior and some of them are just NUTS (MY opinion).
 
 Good luck and hang in there, stick to facts, and deal just with this situation. I believe most teachers are doing an excellent job and are probably dealing daily with the opposite problem - where kids are totally out of control and their parents are in denial. Maybe this teacher overreacted. Ask her for specifics and see if it any of it happened (like she may say they kept making all kinds of noise when actually you saw one of kids accidentally drop his book; or a kid with a cold keeps turning around to reach into her pocketbook for tissues, etc. - it s especially hard to " see"  from the other end of the pew).
 Diane

[Camperroo]

 Camperroo
Hi all, I m glad to hear I m not the only parent who has had to go against the teacher!  Really it s a terrible position to be put in because it makes me feel as though other people are saying...oh boy another parent who won t take responsibility for their child...but in this reality...I was right there.  My children go to church every Sunday along with when at school and they are very respectful of their behavior as we have enforced it their whole lives.  They actually enjoy Mass and participating in it.  I think I mentioned before, but I attended  Mass that day because my son was looking forward to it and asked me to be there to share it with him.  
 
 After our little hallway debate on Friday, I wrote the teacher a note and sent it to school today telling her of my confusion as to whether she and I were actually sitting in the same church, watching the same kids.  I told her I had the highest respect for teacher s but what she has done and the situation she has created is unexcusable as it puts the children in a horrible position.  If I hadn t been there to see it, my son would have been punished by us, and how would that make him feel when he realizes he tried to tell the truth and couldn t get through to us.  We also sent back his " written confession"  and refused to sign it and we would not accept her confrontational attitude.  She did not acknowledge our note back to me, but my son was not forced to sit in for recess today, however, the other little boy was, because his mom wasn t able to speak to her this morning before school.  She also did not sign her son s written " confession."  However, I did see the mom coming out after school, where I knew she found that her son was made to stay inside again today, and she looked as though she had steam coming out her ears.  I m waiting to hear back from her.  Another teacher tried to downplay it all by saying that perhaps she might have picked out a couple of children to set as an example to the others to teach them how to behave and perhaps that was all she meant to do with my son and his friend and it got out of hand!  Can you imagine!!  I told her I didn t send my child to school to become an experiment for the teacher and her life lessons approach.  
 
 As with every profession, you will find good and bad.  For all teachers on this board this is not about bashing a teacher but it is about a person who cannot handle their job with responsibility and honesty, who happens to be a teacher.  I don t care if she was having a bad day, was stressed out or had a fight with her boyfriend the night before...her anger doesn t belong in the classroom or in this case...church, or being taken out on the kids.  You can be sure I ll be at all future gatherings and maybe I ll just bring along my video camera just to ensure equality on all sides![]
 
 I m just so disappointed in the whole thing...what a rotten way to start the school year.  Not for my son, as we don t want to blow it up to much in front of him, we want him to enjoy being at school...so we ve just assured him this will all work out fine and his job is to go to school as usual and do his thing and have fun.
 

[B-flat]

 Camperroo
One wonders if honesty has gone out the door?  If this teacher made a mistake, then she should admit it and go forward.  Anything less would not be honorable on her part.  I am still waiting to hear what her next story will be.[:@]   Truth will always prevail.

[birol]

 Camperroo
We just won a war against our DD s teacher ........ Takes time and perseverane, they think they are like politicians that they can get away with everything. Power corrupts !

[Popupnut]

 Camperroo
We are the only advocates our children have.....stick to your guns...attend masses as frequently as you can and show your child your support and the teacher that you are there doing your job as your child s advocate.  The result of your actions will last a lifetime.

[whitestar505]

 Popupnut
Popupnut,
 
    Very good point. I agree!

[barbjeff]

 Camperroo
I m siding with GeneF, I was going to respond but I don t think I will.....I feel that the rope and tall oak tree are to close to me
 
 
 22 yrs in the classroom.

[Camperroo]

 barbjeff
PLEASE...remember this is not about all teachers in general.  We all know how difficult a teacher s job is...I certainly wouldn t want to deal with a classroom full of kids everyday!  This is about a woman who is a teacher who quite frankly shouldn t be teaching, she s become confrontational with the children at school, parents and even fellow teachers who have asked her to tone it down a bit, she generally looks like a miserable person who is unhappy with life...time for a happier line of work for her, I don t even think she s hit 30 yet.   Too young to be so miserable in her work.  No different than a mechanic, doctor, plumber, electrician, etc.,  who can t handle their job correctly either.  I feel badly for teacher s on this post who keep responding " they won t respond"   There s no reason for you not to.  We all know of the stories of undisciplined kids, rude parents, unfair school committees, poor salaries, just like we also all know the stories of the wonderful teachers who are there for their students, who challenge them to learn, who make a difference in their lives just by being there and are dedicated professionals and parents that love, nurture and develop their children into being responsible students and human beings.  Surely, you must have dealt with fellow teacher s in your career that you know didn t belong in the profession or were burnt out and needed a change...these people exist in every facet of professional life.  So please, you don t need to worry about rope and oak trees...it s not what the thread is about.

[AustinBoston]

 Camperroo

ORIGINAL:  Camperroo
 
 PLEASE...remember this is not about all teachers in general...

 Indeed.  Although I posted a horror story about one teacher, that is definitely the exception.  Between our three kids, they have had at least 90 public school teachers in 5 public schools in two states (so far).  Although there were a few issues along the way, only the one I posted about was a real problem.
 
 Austin
 

[Jeffrey]

 birol
I m really surprised there isn t an email campaign going yet?[&:]

[birol]

 Jeffrey
Jeffrey,
 
 
 Why are your posts so bitter ?

[Miss-Teri]

 birol
I can t say any of my three kids have ever had a really bad teacher (since we re now focusing on praising teachers []).  But... They do need to know what to do when a student in their care gets hurt.  My son cut off the tip of his finger Monday (the entire fingerprint part is gone and it will take 4-5 wks for tissue to fill in the hole), and his teacher - who I like and is a good teacher - sent him alone to the nurse s office.  The nurse wasn t there so he went to the counselor s office.  The counselor wasn t there, but fortunately shortly before he almost passed out from seeing his own blood, a teacher found him in the hall with both arms and hands covered in blood and got him safely to the office where they called me.  The office sent his teacher an e-mail (since when is office-teacher communication done through e-mails, lol!) telling her to NEVER send a bleeding student alone to the nurse.
 
 I really wasn t mad, believe it or not - I didn t consider that as bad as when he got a concussion on the playground and ended up with stitches to boot, and the teacher on duty sent him back out to play immediately after it happened - with a head injury.  [:@]
 
 They really need a bit of training in that area, IMO.

[Acts 2:38 girl]

 birol
I definatley feel this is an exception.  I certainly would need a lot of patience to be a teacher.  I think more for dealing with the parents!![]  I know of a parent who is always bad-mouthing her childrens teachers, knowing her little " angels"  would never do anything awful and " for crying out loud"  why don t they spend more time with her children!!  [:@]  Like she/he can just ignore the other 25-35 students!!
 Nope, wouldn t want to do it!  Thank God there are good teachers out there too!  I can remember a few exceptional teachers I ve had, and they made ALL the difference in the world in helping me learn.  I still remember the one teacher I had who helped subtraction the click!!  
 
  Mrs. Hamilton, if your out there - Thank you!!!!! []  
 
 and thanks to all the teachers out there who really try and give it thier all!!  [][]

[jstaddwtr]

 birol
I found this to be a very interesting issue, both because of the issue at hand and the dynamics and reactions from our group.  I will respond to the former and leave the latter because of its " 3rd rail"  type subject![][][]
 
 All I can suggest is that all of the discussion above points to the absolute need of the parents to be deeply involved in the schooling of our children.  We need to know what is going on in the classroom and in the life of our kids.  You did it by going to mass, others do it by volunteering in various activities.[]
 
 You were there[]...........that says alot about you and your dedication to your child.  I look at the dynamics of this discussion that is best captured by your caption" ...going against the teacher!"  very differently.   I simply don t look at it that way.  (But I am not disagreeing with you!!!!!!)  []
 
 Teachers and schools and coaches and everyone else that interact with my children are all part of team.  We all have our opinions and we all have roles to play; unfortunately, many folks neglect their role.  To disagree with an action of a teacher is meaningless unless you understand the details behind it.  I don t think you can " go against a teacher"  if you all are working for the same goal, what is best for your child!
 
 As part of the team you deserve to know " why"  something occurred, meaning the understanding behind this teachers actions.  As anyone, I would hope you would have a good enough relationship with the teacher or that teachers superiors to be able to come in any time and make an inquiry, regardless of the topic.  Communication by letter was a good start, my preference would be an immediate call and an appointment for a face to face.  (That way I could decide whether I have to get in someones face[]
 
 Maybe the teacher screwed up, (sounds like that was the case)[8D] maybe she had a bad day (still an issue), maybe something else is going on..........or maybe this is just her style and you just have not been subjected to this before. () [&:][8D]
 
 We find, the more we get involved in our schools, on a regular basis, the better it is for our children and our teachers to do the job we expect.  As a swim coach, my DH spends almost as much time in what he calls " the care and feeding of parents"  [] as he does working with their kids.  But he insists that if he did not do this.............nothing would get done.  But because he does it, he gets the best out of everyone and when there is a problem, he knows .....right away, because they come to him.
 
 Good Luck![][][]